Hi from a Newbie (no longer) looking for a 3L Z4

[NickDE]

And the second image shows "Sport" seats - don't forget "M-Sport" hadn't quite been invented in the E85/E86 era despite the stickers on the wheels, steering wheel, etc.!

"M-Sport" was reserved for E9* 318s, 114ds and similar sporting legends!!

When I run my E86 through the VIN decoders I get "711 M Sport Seats For Driver/front Pas"

[Marlon]

And the second image shows "Sport" seats - don't forget "M-Sport" hadn't quite been invented in the E85/E86 era despite the stickers on the wheels, steering wheel, etc.!

"M-Sport" was reserved for E9* 318s, 114ds and similar sporting legends!!

When I run my E86 through the VIN decoders I get "711 M Sport Seats For Driver/front Pas"

Yes - thats correct 'M Sport Seats' is what they are called

[NickDE]

So is there a difference between 'M Sport' and 'M-Sport' ? With BMWs confusing nomenclature these days I wouldn't be surprised if there was a key difference disguised by the marketing guys . Bring back the days when 325i meant you had a 3 series fitted with a 2.5L fuel injected engine....

[MACK]

standard Sport seats:



M Sport Seats

I think I would call the first image "standard" (or SE) seats, given that there is nothing remotely sporty about them!

And the second image shows "Sport" seats - don't forget "M-Sport" hadn't quite been invented in the E85/E86 era despite the stickers on the wheels, steering wheel, etc.!

"M-Sport" was reserved for E9* 318s, 114ds and similar sporting legends!!

Marlon is right here.
BMW's own literature describes the standard seats as Sports seats (agree they certainly aren't sporty!) and the others as M Sport seats. I think what muddy's the waters is there wasn't an M Sport model E85/6 just a sport, yet all the better equipment was describe as "M Sport" this and that. Its a strange one from BMW that it chose to call a sports car SE on the pre facelift and then SE and Sport on the post cars because the M Sport model designation was in existence and in use on the E46 by the time E85 was launched. It was also in use on the 1/5/6 series by the time the facelift was launch. So BMW why call a your pre facelift range topping 3.0 sports car SE?! Then compound it by calling the post a Sport when the rest of your models are M Sport!!!

The M sports are better, they support you more in the twisties and seem better padded in the base cushion than the standard Sport seats. The Standard seats feel like your sat on a church pew if you move between them and M Sport ones quickly!

[goldbcfc]

Thanks for the welcome and extra info.
It's gotta be a manual, my daily drive is an Auto (a first for me) and for that reason alone I don't want another.
I've no doubt at all the M52 2.5L engine is as strong in real world driving, however I've always fancied a 3L IL6, having been in a friend's 330s over the years, so that's what I'm going to aim for this time, a 2.5 would just niggle away at the back of my mind. Wrong I know but there you are. The one above on ebay does look very nice though.

You sound like the position i was in. Id owned E46's for last 10 years had a 330ci convertible so made sense getting a faster 3.0i Z4. Having owned both the facelift 2.5si is much better, the 3.0 SE model is basic spec after all. Straight line speed the cars are the same but the facelift engine has more torque so feels better. I used to stand by the m54 engine having owned loads but the n52/54 is defffinately a better unit. The steering is more sharp on the sport compared to SE model too. Steering wheel is thicker and smaller.

my 3.0i 231bhp z4 was no faster than E46 330ci at santapod last year bmw fest at 1/4 mile which shocked me.

[Jollyjoiner]

Hello and welcome to the site.

I hope you find what your looking for and then let the spending begin

[MrPT]

Welcome.

You are lucky that you can fit! I've got two mates who are 6'4. One is ok in the passenger seat, even though he's 20st+ and his head touches the roof lining; the other can't get his knees under the dash, even with the seat all the way back.

Would strongly recommend M Sports seats. Again, people are different shapes and sizes, so they won't make a massive difference for everybody, but they definitely do look better and because you're tall the extendable bases will support your legs and stop your lower back getting wrecked on long journeys (even I find this and I'm a shortarse). Speaks volumes that people with £4k cars are still paying £800 for them and then giving away their standard seats for free.

You sound like the position i was in. Id owned E46's for last 10 years had a 330ci convertible so made sense getting a faster 3.0i Z4. Having owned both the facelift 2.5si is much better, the 3.0 SE model is basic spec after all. Straight line speed the cars are the same but the facelift engine has more torque so feels better.

The 2.5si has quite a bit less torque than the 3.0i, but I agree that they're pretty similar in real world performance and mid-miler 2.5si is a decent option for ~£6k. Out of the whole range the 2.5si is probably the one you can "rag" the most and stay safe/legal while having fun. The M is definitely not the same and the 3.0si is nearly a second quicker to 60 than the 2.5si, even though it's hard to tell when you drive them back-to-back. Wouldn't discount a 3.0si high miler though - especially if it's a forum car. E.g. something like this, maybe with a few more on the clock: http://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=92396

[MrPT]

Oh, and try and budget to replace runflat tyres if a car has them. If you can find a 3.0i in good condition with worn runflats, then that would be a sweet deal to do if you can keep <£500 aside for new non-runflat tyres. Really does make a massive difference - way more than steering wheels, seats, dash trim, 2.5 vs 3.0 litres etc!

Never heard of a car as transformed in the way that the E85/E86 Z4 is when going from RFTs to non-RFTs. Something to do with the fact that the OEM RFT tyre (Bridgestone RE-something) is rubbish, and the fussy rear geometry and relatively stiff suspension setup just compound the issue. It's pretty cringeworthy to look at old reviews of the Z4 vs the Boxster and see it get trounced on "composure" and for tramlining. It's no Boxster, in that respect, but the gap is much closer once the tyres are changed.

[MACK]

I'd stick to your plan OP and not be swayed by someone blatantly trying to sell you a 2.5Si. Especially a car they have had a matter of months and no longer want. This coupled to their reputation on here, I'd steer well clear. It wasn't that long ago he was telling us his 2.2 was a better than the 3.0 (when he was selling a 2.2!)

Engine wise M54 has a nicer sound than the later N52 and the 2.5Si is more than half a second slower to 60 than the earlier 3.0, something most people would notice. More torque?!!! Its about 40lbft and 20bhp down on a pre facelift 3.0, again something most would notice.

The N52, although not particularly problematic is a little less reliable than the earlier engines. But the biggest key difference is the cost of parts.
A water pump replacement will set you back circa £500 on a N52, on an M54 is about a fifth of that. The water pumps are a common fix on both engines at 80k plus.

That said your budget can just about get you into a N54 powered 3.0 which is noticeably more powerful than the earlier 3.0. I would definitely look into this as they aren't dissimilar in price to the 2.5.

In the end for most if comes down to a question of budget and can you live with orange indicators!

[MrPT]

In the end for most if comes down to a question of budget and can you live with orange indicators!

The doors also make an unbelievable clanging noise. I could never get over that when I was originally looking, even though I know now that it's a relatively simple fix.

[MACK]

In the end for most if comes down to a question of budget and can you live with orange indicators!

The doors also make an unbelievable clanging noise. I could never get over that when I was originally looking, even though I know now that it's a relatively simple fix.

That reminds me, must buy sound deadening!

[goldbcfc]

I'd stick to your plan OP and not be swayed by someone blatantly trying to sell you a 2.5Si. Especially a car they have had a matter of months and no longer want. This coupled to their reputation on here, I'd steer well clear. It wasn't that long ago he was telling us his 2.2 was a better than the 3.0 (when he was selling a 2.2!) :

I'd concern yourself with your own life rather than what others do with their cars. Ive been in the motor trade over 12yrs i work for a well known dealer im not some internet guru like yourself. The car sold yesterday to 1st viewer. He'd been looking at 3.0i too so i guess he went for Sport spec over SE after test driving another. To come back the next day and buy mine......

infact if you must know ive been a bmw enthusiast for many years and members on other forums, i go to many shows and my last 8 bmw's ive sold to 1st or 2nd viwers, thats how good they are

I can see what you mean about the seats, the sport ones do look much better. Thing is, I'm tall (6'5), and I need every inch of leg room (length and width) I can get, past experience of hatchback bucket type seats suggest I'll not be too happy due to the high seat bolsters. I need to sit on one with those sport seat to be sure. We will potentially take 2 hour drives in the car so it's got to be comfortable.
Have to say The SE I sat in the other day felt OK widthwise with the seat on all the down and back limits.

Need to start seeing some more cars once it's warmed up a bit outside, the lighter evenings will help as well.

I had more room in my Z4 with SE seats i said this in a post as soon as i got another Z4 which had sports seats. I said i prefered the SE seats it felt bigger to me inside. Yes the sport seats are more comfy but there is more room having the flatter SE seat has always been my honest opinion

[LordOxygen]

Some interesting (and heated) comments, I've taken note of the information.
I going to search out a tidy 3L manual because that's what I want. I'm very doubtful the deeper sportier seats will offer enough room, I will find out when I sit in one. It would be good to be proved wrong as I'll have more choice of cars. If I do fit I think my initial budget could increase as the face lift 3.0Lsi with red seats look awesome, they seem to be around £7 to £7.5K.
early days and in no rush thankfully,

[MACK]

I'd stick to your plan OP and not be swayed by someone blatantly trying to sell you a 2.5Si. Especially a car they have had a matter of months and no longer want. This coupled to their reputation on here, I'd steer well clear. It wasn't that long ago he was telling us his 2.2 was a better than the 3.0 (when he was selling a 2.2!) :

I'd concern yourself with your own life rather than what others do with their cars. Ive been in the motor trade over 12yrs i work for a well known dealer im not some internet guru like yourself. The car sold yesterday to 1st viewer. He'd been looking at 3.0i too so i guess he went for Sport spec over SE after test driving another. To come back the next day and buy mine......

infact if you must know ive been a bmw enthusiast for many years and members on other forums, i go to many shows and my last 8 bmw's ive sold to 1st or 2nd viwers, thats how good they are

Don't see anything in your statement that would/does change my advice to the OP and it just reinforces your well earn't poor reputation on here really. You really do talk some utter sh!te! Brave of you to make bold statements about a buyer considering your history. You must be pretty sure this buyer isn't going to put it up sale a few days later for a grand more than you sold it them for. You know, so you can come crying on here about how you were shafted and how no one should buy it off him!

I also see you couldn't resist going back to your pathetic name calling, whatever makes you feel better! "BMW Guru", I don't recall claiming to be a expert (unlike you do repeatedly). But if I remember correctly your such a fantastic "BMW Guru" you work for er.....................a Volvo Trucks Main Stealers!!!!

If you must know I know I'm no expert but do have a degree (not a diploma) in Automotive Engineer as well as some other post graduate qualifications and have over 20 years experience in the industry. Not that any qualifications are relevant here anyway.

But a word of advice, if your going to swing your dick around, at least make sure your dick is the biggest!!!

#Little Man Syndrome!

[LordOxygen]

Hahahaha.
Go easy guys, this isnt a good look in newbie thread.