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Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
- sk93
- Lifer
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Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
so today marks the end of my DSP woes.
I am no longer running the DSP amp in my car and the stereo sounds about 50 times better than it ever has.
We replaced the DSP amp with an Alpine PDX-v9 4+1 channel amp.
It's a pricy one, at £385, but still within the ballpark of a replacement secondhand DSP amp (I've already spend £700 on replacement amps!!)
We also threw in a set of inPhase passive crossovers, as the tweeters and fronts are independently wired and are managed by the DSP amp's internal crossovers.
But that was it - that was ALL that was required..
And the best bit? Carver/DSP car headunits have a pre-out connection at the amplifier.
they are NOT, and i mean NOT high-level inputs...
All the pinouts that have been banded around are not correct for my car (prefacelift with top-hifi/carver)
so, for those looking at this themselves, here's some bullet points:
1: The headunit provides a single set of full range (left and right channel) pre-outs, which you can wire up to a pair of RCA cables directly. There is no need for a hi-low converter. There is no need for a high-level input.
2: The headunit does NOT provide ANY high-level outputs to the amplifier. None at all. the only one is the pre-out mentioned above, plus a control wire to tell the DSP amp what to do in regards to fading front to back
3: the front woofers are capable of full range sound
4: The front mids are just for mid sound. they cannot handle bass or high treble frequency
5: the front tweeters are wired independently from the mids (all the way into the amp) and do not contain any passive crossovers / caps
6: The two rear subwoofers need to be ran in parallel in order to bring their impedance down to 5ohm and thus work better with an amplifier.
7: the rear mids are the same as the front mids (no high or low tolerance)
All in all, the whole process took about 4 hours to complete, with most of that time trying to figure out why things didn't line up with the pinouts.
The best advice I can give you is to ignore the pinouts and concentrate on finding the single set of pre-outs from the headunit.
Once you have these, you're just left with speaker wires, which are twisted pairs, power (obvious) & i-bus (grey+violet).
Front and rear woofers are the heavier gauge wires, the rest are the front mids, tweeters and rear mids.
The wiring colours make ZERO sense.. whilst both front doors have a set of blue and set of yellow wires (one for each speaker), the same colour is not used across the doors.
(yellows on the left were for tweeters, but were for mids on the right.... nice one BMW).
Anyways.. anyone with carver/dsp issues - go down this route. I HIGHLY recommend it - the quality of sound that you get from your existing speakers is day and night in comparison.
so yeah.. just changed the amp - left all of the speakers and subs as they were, and transformed the sound quality no end
I am no longer running the DSP amp in my car and the stereo sounds about 50 times better than it ever has.
We replaced the DSP amp with an Alpine PDX-v9 4+1 channel amp.
It's a pricy one, at £385, but still within the ballpark of a replacement secondhand DSP amp (I've already spend £700 on replacement amps!!)
We also threw in a set of inPhase passive crossovers, as the tweeters and fronts are independently wired and are managed by the DSP amp's internal crossovers.
But that was it - that was ALL that was required..
And the best bit? Carver/DSP car headunits have a pre-out connection at the amplifier.
they are NOT, and i mean NOT high-level inputs...
All the pinouts that have been banded around are not correct for my car (prefacelift with top-hifi/carver)
so, for those looking at this themselves, here's some bullet points:
1: The headunit provides a single set of full range (left and right channel) pre-outs, which you can wire up to a pair of RCA cables directly. There is no need for a hi-low converter. There is no need for a high-level input.
2: The headunit does NOT provide ANY high-level outputs to the amplifier. None at all. the only one is the pre-out mentioned above, plus a control wire to tell the DSP amp what to do in regards to fading front to back
3: the front woofers are capable of full range sound
4: The front mids are just for mid sound. they cannot handle bass or high treble frequency
5: the front tweeters are wired independently from the mids (all the way into the amp) and do not contain any passive crossovers / caps
6: The two rear subwoofers need to be ran in parallel in order to bring their impedance down to 5ohm and thus work better with an amplifier.
7: the rear mids are the same as the front mids (no high or low tolerance)
All in all, the whole process took about 4 hours to complete, with most of that time trying to figure out why things didn't line up with the pinouts.
The best advice I can give you is to ignore the pinouts and concentrate on finding the single set of pre-outs from the headunit.
Once you have these, you're just left with speaker wires, which are twisted pairs, power (obvious) & i-bus (grey+violet).
Front and rear woofers are the heavier gauge wires, the rest are the front mids, tweeters and rear mids.
The wiring colours make ZERO sense.. whilst both front doors have a set of blue and set of yellow wires (one for each speaker), the same colour is not used across the doors.
(yellows on the left were for tweeters, but were for mids on the right.... nice one BMW).
Anyways.. anyone with carver/dsp issues - go down this route. I HIGHLY recommend it - the quality of sound that you get from your existing speakers is day and night in comparison.
so yeah.. just changed the amp - left all of the speakers and subs as they were, and transformed the sound quality no end
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
glad you got there in the end
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
Did you use pin 1-8 on A block?
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
I am actually pretty happy with the Carver in my 2007 M.
Thanks very much for the information though, very interesting.
Are the signals to the amp from the HU balanced differential inputs do you know? Perhaps not on the Z4 as it is a bit old now but my previous E92 used balanced differential to send signal from HU to amp.
Thanks very much for the information though, very interesting.
Are the signals to the amp from the HU balanced differential inputs do you know? Perhaps not on the Z4 as it is a bit old now but my previous E92 used balanced differential to send signal from HU to amp.
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
nope.GuidoK wrote:Did you use pin 1-8 on A block?
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
I'm glad this worked out! Are you running the woofers in bandpass or are they being fed highs as well?I am no longer running the DSP amp in my car and the stereo sounds about 50 times better than it ever has.
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
front woofers? full range
rear subs? limited to ~120hz
rear subs? limited to ~120hz
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
Which pins did you use? because this is the only pinout block on the HU:sk93 wrote:nope.GuidoK wrote:Did you use pin 1-8 on A block?
Or do you have another connection block on the back of the HU
This is the back of my HU:
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
I don't have half of those pins connected in my headunit.
I certainly don't have anything in pin 1 for example.
I will take a pic of my headunit wiring in a bit, as I've actually just pulled the headunit.
however, this is the most accurate pinout, but it's still wrong:
look at pins 1,3 & 7 in connector b
I certainly don't have anything in pin 1 for example.
I will take a pic of my headunit wiring in a bit, as I've actually just pulled the headunit.
however, this is the most accurate pinout, but it's still wrong:
look at pins 1,3 & 7 in connector b
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
Yes that's the same on my diagram. It say's "kopfhörer" which means "headphones" (basically a line signal)
But with those pins you only have 2ch line out, so you can't regulate front&rear balance with the HU. So you have to adjust that with the channel gain adjustment on the main amp to set the balance to your liking.
I think I saw an option in INPA where you can configure the HU main output from high voltage to line output but I don't know that for sure.
But with those pins you only have 2ch line out, so you can't regulate front&rear balance with the HU. So you have to adjust that with the channel gain adjustment on the main amp to set the balance to your liking.
I think I saw an option in INPA where you can configure the HU main output from high voltage to line output but I don't know that for sure.
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
that's exactly what I said in the very first post matey...
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
Excellent info mate! This post is the first one I've seen that's made me consider modifying my existing set-up.
Glad you finally got it sorted too.
Glad you finally got it sorted too.
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
ok..my radio has the following pins in place.
(remember that I don't have bluetooth, phone or nav in my car, and my cd changer was coax as i'm prefacelift)
block A:
2,3,6,7,9,12,13,14,15,16
block b:
none
block c:
3,4,10
we changed NOTHING at the headunit end, and we did ZERO recoding.
If you have carver/top hifi, you'll definitely have a low-level output at the amp for the LEFT and RIGHT channels.
The AMPLIFIER deals with fading front and rear.
The HEADUNIT deals with balance, bass & treble.
The AMPLIFIER deals with DSP modes.
I can verify this as all being exactly correct, as:
1: I've done this myself
2: I've just pulled the headunit again today to rewire my DICE/Pi installation into the CD Changer IN ports on the back of the headunit.
I now have all of my devices (aux in, cd, radio, "cd changer") working perfectly via my new amp set up.
the ONLY thing that will cause an issue for anyone looking to do this is as follows:
IF you've got a coax-connected cd changer, and IF that changer doesn't also have the six pin connector inside it (it may have the hole, but not the pins), then you will NOT get audio out from your cd changer.
I suspect you could use the DICE DSP adaptor or the GROM DSP adaptor to resolve this, but that is not something I've investigated.
If you have a dice mediabridge or similar, and are already using the DSP adaptor, or you've got a cd changer with a 6-pin connector, then you're in luck.
if your car has the 6-pin wiring harness in place, this will already connect to the headunit and you will need to do nothing.
If you're using the DSP adaptor, then all you need to do is unplug it, and run a set of wires from the poles of each phono connector (that comes from the dice unit, not the dsp unit), as well as a single wire that joins both grounds / outer shields from those phono connectors, back to the headunit.
Once there, use the pinout in my post above, and connect them up into block B as shown.
that's it.. job done.
(remember that I don't have bluetooth, phone or nav in my car, and my cd changer was coax as i'm prefacelift)
block A:
2,3,6,7,9,12,13,14,15,16
block b:
none
block c:
3,4,10
we changed NOTHING at the headunit end, and we did ZERO recoding.
If you have carver/top hifi, you'll definitely have a low-level output at the amp for the LEFT and RIGHT channels.
The AMPLIFIER deals with fading front and rear.
The HEADUNIT deals with balance, bass & treble.
The AMPLIFIER deals with DSP modes.
I can verify this as all being exactly correct, as:
1: I've done this myself
2: I've just pulled the headunit again today to rewire my DICE/Pi installation into the CD Changer IN ports on the back of the headunit.
I now have all of my devices (aux in, cd, radio, "cd changer") working perfectly via my new amp set up.
the ONLY thing that will cause an issue for anyone looking to do this is as follows:
IF you've got a coax-connected cd changer, and IF that changer doesn't also have the six pin connector inside it (it may have the hole, but not the pins), then you will NOT get audio out from your cd changer.
I suspect you could use the DICE DSP adaptor or the GROM DSP adaptor to resolve this, but that is not something I've investigated.
If you have a dice mediabridge or similar, and are already using the DSP adaptor, or you've got a cd changer with a 6-pin connector, then you're in luck.
if your car has the 6-pin wiring harness in place, this will already connect to the headunit and you will need to do nothing.
If you're using the DSP adaptor, then all you need to do is unplug it, and run a set of wires from the poles of each phono connector (that comes from the dice unit, not the dsp unit), as well as a single wire that joins both grounds / outer shields from those phono connectors, back to the headunit.
Once there, use the pinout in my post above, and connect them up into block B as shown.
that's it.. job done.
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
You don't have block A fully pinned?
You're missing the rear speakers?
(pin 1,4,5, 8 )
That is really strange
This is my block and is fully pinned (also b and c block):
My car has all options (tv, hifi prof dsp, navi, bluetoot etc etc etc), so I also have the subs and speakers behind the seats (hifi professional)
Hifi professional is option S677A in the bmw vin options check.
What are the last 7 characters of your vin? I have LR90594
I'm not sure but it looks like your dsp system is totally differently wired than mine
Do you have a picture of the top of your headunit with all the stickers and part numbers?
This is mine:
You're missing the rear speakers?
(pin 1,4,5, 8 )
That is really strange
This is my block and is fully pinned (also b and c block):
My car has all options (tv, hifi prof dsp, navi, bluetoot etc etc etc), so I also have the subs and speakers behind the seats (hifi professional)
Hifi professional is option S677A in the bmw vin options check.
What are the last 7 characters of your vin? I have LR90594
I'm not sure but it looks like your dsp system is totally differently wired than mine
Do you have a picture of the top of your headunit with all the stickers and part numbers?
This is mine:
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- sk93
- Lifer
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Re: Carver/DSP Delete - easier than expected
I have the following options:
Code: Select all
Type Code BT52
Type Z4 3.0I (EUR)
E-series E85 ()
Series Z
Type ROADST
Steering RL
Doors 2
Engine M54
Working volume 3.00
Power 170
Drive HECK
Transmission MECH
Color STERLINGGRAU METALLIC (472)
Upholstery LEDER OREGON / SCHWARZ (LASW)
Date Prospect Island 2003-04-08
S230A EU SPEZIFISCHE ZUSATZUMFAENGE additional amount for EU
S302A ALARMANLAGE Signaling system
S345A CHROME LINE INTERIEUR Trim Chrome Line
S350A VERBUNDRAEDER STERNSP. 108/MISCHB. Sost.disk BMW with zvezdoobr.sp.diz.108
S380A HARDTOP-VORBEREITUNG Ready for tough tselnosem. roof
S387A WINDSCHUTZ Wind deflector
S399A VERDECKBETAETIGUNG VOLLAUTOMATISCH Automatic convertible top. with e / vol.
S423A FUSSMATTEN IN VELOURS Floor mats Velours
S428A WARNDREIECK Warning triangle and first aid kit
S430A INNEN-/AUSSENSPIEGEL AUT.ABBLENDEND Int. / Nar.zerk.s dimming
S441A RAUCHERPAKET Smoking Kit
S459A SITZVERSTELLUNG, ELEKTR.MIT MEMORY Seat adjuster, electric, with memory
S493A ABLAGENPAKET Packet storage locations
S494A SITZHEIZUNG FUER FAHRER / BEIFAHRER System Seat heating driver / pered.pass.
S502A SCHEINWERFER-WASCHANLAGE headlight washer system
S521A REGENSENSOR Regensensor
S522A XENON-LICHT Xenon Light
S534A KLIMAAUTOMATIK Automatic air conditioning
S662A RADIO BMW BUSINESS CD BMW Business CD radio
S672A CD WECHSLER 6-FACH CD-changer for 6 CDs
S677A HIFI SYSTEM PROFESSIONAL HiFi Professional System with DSP
S704A M SPORTFAHRWERK M Sports suspension
L812A ENGLAND / IRLAND AUSFUEHRUNG Export isp.dlya England / Ireland
S818A BATTERIEHAUPTSCHALTER Main circuit breaker
S863A SERVICE KONTAKT-FLYER EUROPA Dealer list Europe
S877A UEBERKREUZBEDIENUNG ENTFALL No cross control
S880A ENGLISCH / BORDLITERATUR Onboard documentation, English
S925A VERSANDSCHUTZPAKET Protective package for shipment
S999A AUFTRAGSSTEUERUNG HEA System for passing the order "HEA"
S224A FAHRDYNAMIK CONTROL driving dynamics control
S255A SPORT-LEDERLENKRAD Sports steering wheel with airbag, leather
S520A NEBELSCHEINWERFER fog
S550A BORDCOMPUTER On-board computer
S853A SPRACHVERSION ENGLISCH Caption dashboard, Eng.