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Speaker replacement reccomendations

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Rufus59
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Rufus59 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:06 pm

Well now I am confused... had a listen with my ear right against where the door speaker should be and I could clearly hear sound coming from there. So either I have the mid level sound system or someone has fitted something there previously... did the mid level system come with the subs behind the seats? I definitely don't have dsp...
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Magicarcher
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Magicarcher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:21 pm

Marc-j wrote:Well now I am confused... had a listen with my ear right against where the door speaker should be and I could clearly hear sound coming from there. So either I have the mid level sound system or someone has fitted something there previously... did the mid level system come with the subs behind the seats? I definitely don't have dsp...
Shine a light in the grille and see if you can see the cone or dustcap of the speaker. As standard the 4" grill has a plastic plate behind it to block it off.
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Magicarcher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:46 pm

Marc-j wrote:Thanks for the pointers so far, I'm leaning away from upgrading the 6.5" footwell sub as I have read that it can be a bit disappointing vs the OEM performance anyway, presumably because you're still using the Headhunt amp.
There are two reasons:

1) The one you mention, the standard head unit will have been designed to a tight budget, it will not be an audiophile specification and will not use audiophile components. The power output I believe is around 6W RMS per channel
2) The one most people overlook. The footwell speaker is fitted into a sealed enclosure of approx 10L, this is very small for a 6.5" driver and will over-dampen the driver which will limit its excursion and raise the lower cut-off frequency which will reduce the bass output. It can work but it will need a very compliant speaker. Unfortunately most two or three way component speaker systems provide general purpose drivers designed to work with a wide range of enclosure sizes and they are unlikely to work well in such a small enclosure. The key thin to realise, speaker parameters in isolation are not what matters because all speaker parameters are modified the second they are installed in an enclosure.

That said changing the footwell speakers is still likely to be beneficial because they are likely to be a great deal more sensitive than the standard speakers. the reason is they are likely to be more sensitive and hence create greater sound pressure for a given input power. Like the head unit the speakers will have been designed to a cost and weight target, this will have a detrimental effect on the speaker sensitivity because high speaker sensitivities comes from: large voice coils, powerful magnets (either large heavy ones or high power expensive ones such as neodymium) or very light weight cones. All a no no when the designer has tough targets to hit. I don't know the sensitivity value for the standard speakers but I would guess it would be around 84dB/w. This is probably why they use 2 ohm impedance footwell speakers to ensure greater power to compensate for the lower sensitivity. Typical component systems will have speakers with 90-92 dB/w. This is like increasing the output power of the amplifier without changing the head unit.
Z4 3.0L 2005. Titan Silver. Audio Upgrade Second Stereo Pioneer X8700DAB, Sony Xplode 4 x 70W Amp, 6.5" Reckhorn Subs in rear cubby, Focal AS165-3 in fronts.

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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Magicarcher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:50 pm

vester86 wrote:I went for a set of 3-way Focal http://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-a ... /ps-165-f3
Marc-j wrote:That system would be my ideal, but it's a bit outside of where my budget is sitting at the moment.
Why not consider the smaller companion from Focal the 165AS3. I have just fitted these to my Z4 and they offer a great improvement. Currently selling for £137 on Amazon.
Z4 3.0L 2005. Titan Silver. Audio Upgrade Second Stereo Pioneer X8700DAB, Sony Xplode 4 x 70W Amp, 6.5" Reckhorn Subs in rear cubby, Focal AS165-3 in fronts.

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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Rufus59 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:58 pm

Thanks for the comprehensive response. That makes sense to me and working in the auto industry myself I am all too aware of needing to hit cost and weight targets :rofl: I can imagine speakers get a particularly hard time. These look like a good deal https://www.amazon.co.uk/Focal-165-AS3- ... B00J7OV2MK I may wait and see how I get on now that my FM aerial has been fixed and when my Grom turns up.
I miss the system I had in my old E85 roaster :(
I wasn't able to see through the grill unfortunately, even with a torch. The grille mesh seemed too dense.
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Rufus59 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Magicarcher wrote:
vester86 wrote:I went for a set of 3-way Focal http://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-a ... /ps-165-f3
Marc-j wrote:That system would be my ideal, but it's a bit outside of where my budget is sitting at the moment.
Why not consider the smaller companion from Focal the 165AS3. I have just fitted these to my Z4 and they offer a great improvement. Currently selling for £137 on Amazon.
Haha great minds! :rofl:

*Edit* I did manage to see the footwell speakers and they definitely didn't look like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4-E85-FR ... SwlV9WTkqN they had a textured cone in the centre so I guess they have been replaced...
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by aquarianone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:09 pm

I think I put something similar in mine, Focal 2 way components, mid in the door and replaced the tweeter, left the footwells and behind the head speakers as is.

Also replaced the head unit with the Pioneer dehp80rs, dynamat in the doors and a little underseat sub to finish things off.

Huge improvement and its good to have twin usbs, sd card and Bluetooth audio streaming as well as integrated hands free kit.

Still got scope for upgrading with amps for the Focals and a better sub but I'm pretty happy with it for now.
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Magicarcher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:15 pm

Marc-j wrote:Thanks for the comprehensive response. That makes sense to me and working in the auto industry myself I am all too aware of needing to hit cost and weight targets :rofl: I can imagine speakers get a particularly hard time.
So you will also understand why BMW used 0.75mm csa cable to feed them. I think their higline uses 2mm csa. When I installed mine I went up to 1.5mm csa for the footwell speakers, sadly the connectors in the doors only take 0.75mm csa cables :cry: but wire csa is less of an issue for mids and highs.
Z4 3.0L 2005. Titan Silver. Audio Upgrade Second Stereo Pioneer X8700DAB, Sony Xplode 4 x 70W Amp, 6.5" Reckhorn Subs in rear cubby, Focal AS165-3 in fronts.

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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by Rufus59 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:43 pm

Hmm I think some more investigation is required before I spend £140. There may be an aftermarket system in there already and anything extra would be a very small incremental gain vs upgrading from the stock system.
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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by deluxor » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:17 pm

Hi, i am also looking to upgrade speakers since i dont have any in door panels (6 speakers). Harness is also missing. So if i understand correctly i can use tweeter harness to connect mid speakers in doors (i can use crossover to install mid + new tweeters)?

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Speaker replacement reccomendations

Post by mr.tourette » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:55 pm

deluxor wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:17 pm Hi, i am also looking to upgrade speakers since i dont have any in door panels (6 speakers). Harness is also missing. So if i understand correctly i can use tweeter harness to connect mid speakers in doors (i can use crossover to install mid + new tweeters)?
That is correct :thumbsup:
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