Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

Monkey mans power adder

2003 - 2009, roadster, coupe, facelift
Post Reply
User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Machine monkey » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:41 am

So I was going to wait until the project was finished. But i may weel bee needeing to ask questions and get a little advice to finish off so here goes. Bear with me this may be a long read and i want to give a fairly full background why i have done this and this way. So when the majority of you tell me i am mad and it won’t work (which is fine we are all entitled to opinions) And you could be correct!! But you may just understand why i went this route.

Firstly a first start up video.......
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... 4S2WWC_l6s

So after owning my car and modding it for 4 years. Spending lots of time cash on suspension brakes cosmetics (although not my main concern we all like to look at a car and think yes that’s mine right!!) It was finally time to try and get a little more power.
The options
1 bolt on S/C kit. Well these kits are great and are good value for money and you know they will work. But i wanted to build something myself and something that would challenge me.
2 engine swap. A Lexus v8 was very close to being brought and put in the car. It was affordable and we (me and my best mate Chris have experience with them in the Toyota supra build we did) But i wanted to keep it a straight 6.
3 Nitrous cheap power adder but not really that good unless you like just driving in straight lines.
4 so it was going to be a turbo build.



The reason i have not put that in the title is because of a previous thread. I don’t really fancy this one going in the same direction. Project or thread....

So the build was going to be mega cheap, Mega quick and dirty, And that didn’t happen!! I was going to sling a cheap eBay turbo under the car where the secondary cats live. And just map it using the standard ecu and see what happened.

But after a bit of looking into in and freeing up a little more cash i have gone about it in the way I had always intended. I have stuck the turbo out the back where the back box use to be.
Why!!!
1 heat build up under the bonnet from turbos can effect so many other things. And you can end up chasing your tail fixing things
2 Space is really limited on a RHD z4 on the exhaust side.
3 There is no reason not to do it.
4 I wanted to do it that way.

So I asked myself before the build. In fact me and Chris discussed it at great length over many many beers on many many ocastion. I wanted more power to build something unusual to use my skills to build something never done on a z4. And also to have reliability and drive ability. But to also be crazy and a bit of a handful when I wanted it to be. I also wanted something that has future power possible in future years.

So a turbo was the best option. And what we came up with was using a holset (great strong reliable turbos. Mine is a hx32 it’s quite a rare thing big intake small exhaust side. This turbo will provide up to about 500bhp eventually maybe one day… They have been used on 2.0l engines providing boost from as low as 2500 rpm and giving 500bhp Mine will hopefully be providing boost from about 3-3500 rpm giving me a normal ish z4 to drive around in day to day. And then on track drift days or spirited driving much more power at higher revs. I have modded the turbo so it’s now an external waste gate not internal for better boost control.

I am using a piggy back ECU (perfect power smt8) As I wanted to keep all the standard BMW features traction control and so on witch is almost impossible with a standalone. Also it’s a cheaper option…. This ecu will control fuel timing boost and has a few other really nice features. It can run 2 maps witch switch a flick of a button so I could run a 300bhp map on the road and a 400bhp map on track say.

I will update this post later with pictures and a bit more detail about the build and how it happened over the next few days.

But I would lie to say thanks to a few people who have really helped so far.
My mate Chris
Stuartt who wired in the piggy back and did such an amazing neat job. And without your help I would not have been as relaxed as I am now about the project.
SK93 he will be providing much more help.
Mac and Cj who have helped out on a few technical questions.
IMG_2648.JPG
IMG_2648.JPG (89.4 KiB) Viewed 6813 times
IMG_2289.JPG
IMG_2289.JPG (132.52 KiB) Viewed 6813 times
image3.JPG
image3.JPG (65.63 KiB) Viewed 6813 times
image2.JPG
image2.JPG (102.48 KiB) Viewed 6813 times
IMG_2648.JPG
IMG_2648.JPG (89.4 KiB) Viewed 6813 times
Last edited by Machine monkey on Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

User avatar
MrPT
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: Bucks/Oxon

Monkey mans power adder

Post by MrPT » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:55 am

Boom, out of nowhere!!! Can see what all the winking and behind-the-bike-sheds muttering from some members has been about now. :D

Must admit I had no idea that rear mount turbos were a thing. The charge cooling must be amazing. Can you run Aluminium pipework back up to the engine or does it need to be S/S? Very cool mod... and lots of tuning potential eliminating lag etc.
Last edited by MrPT on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

User avatar
Chris_D
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 6615
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Mostly Holland. Sometimes UK.

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Chris_D » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:56 am

Top bombing Mat!
can't wait to see updates....
E85 3.0i roadie (03) 'Benny'. E93 320d M-Sport Cabrio (11) 'Bob'.
Image
'Always different, always the same.' John Peel on The Fall.

Rally
Member
Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:03 am
Location: Hampshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Rally » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:57 am

Looks awesome Matt can't wait for a ride and to book my car in :P
Imola z4mr, carbon graphite ispiri FFR-6, mpss, gruppem, kw v3, oe strutbrace, aero skirts, schmiedmann carbon splitter, bcs exhaust, dice media, gaptech, F10 zhp & smiles every journey.

Stu Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 711
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:12 am
Location: Tunbridge Wells

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Stu Boy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:04 am

Very interesting location for the turbo, something I've not heard of before. I imagine there's a shed load of work involved :cry:
I'll be keeping on eye on this thread and potentially looking over my shoulder on the road :wink:
Good luck MM
2007 Z4 ///M Roadster, Black Sapphire, Nav, Deflector, Eibach's, Bilstein B6's, OEM CSL's 6 Pot BMW Performance Calipers

User avatar
Steve84N
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Steve84N » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am

Machine monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:41 am 3 There is no reason not to do it.
Erm, more turbo lag...

It will also be less efficient being so far away from the lovely hot air coming out of the engine but more power is more power and the advantages stack up here.

Good luck, seems like you're more of the way there than Johnny ever was.
C63 AMG Estate 6208cc

User avatar
bmwaddict
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1148
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:55 pm
Location: West Herts/East Bucks

Monkey mans power adder

Post by bmwaddict » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:41 am

I too never knew a rear mounted turbo was a thing! Good luck Mat!
Currently zedless :(

'07 Mugello Blue Audi B7 RS4 Saloon with added goodies
'94 Black/Silver/Green Honda CBR400RR
Previous:
'07 Ruby Black Z4MC
'07 Sapphire Black Z4C 3.0si Sport

User avatar
kis
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4536
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:33 pm
Location: Surrey / West Sussex Boarder

Monkey mans power adder

Post by kis » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 am

Nice project! Looking forward to more updates! :fuelfire:
My E85 Z4 3.0i SMG

BMW Family History (past and present):
1 Series - E87
3 Series - E46 Coupe, E46 M3, E90 (x3)
4 Series - F36, F82 M4
5 Series - E34 (x2), E39
7 Series - E32
X5 - E53, E70
X6 - E71

User avatar
-Tom-
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Bath

Monkey mans power adder

Post by -Tom- » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:47 am

This looks like fun mat! I'm sure you're in your element in the man cave with this. The turbo noises coming from the back is going to be really odd, and loud with the roof down behind you :driving: :driving:
-Z4 M Coupe, Silver Grey, Imola Red Nappa, carbon leather, CSLs, SuperSprint Race, Track Mode Enabled
-Tesla M3 LR

Previous - 3.0 si sport roadster, Silver Grey with Oregon Pearl Grey leather, Piano black, EIbach Pro, Stubby

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Smartbear » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 am

Steve84N wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am
Machine monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:41 am 3 There is no reason not to do it.
Erm, more turbo lag...

It will also be less efficient being so far away from the lovely hot air coming out of the engine but more power is more power and the advantages stack up here.

Good luck, seems like you're more of the way there than Johnny ever was.
Not sure about that, turbo's depend on exhaust gas velocity & not temperature to create boost pressure-the only issue I can think of is the convoluted route/length of pipe back to the inlet side of the engine, as the more joins=more potential for leaks?
I'm sure mat will overcome though :thumbsup:
Is it plumbed into the engines oil/coolant supply for cooling and lubrication?
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Machine monkey » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:02 am

Steve84N wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am
Machine monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:41 am 3 There is no reason not to do it.
Erm, more turbo lag...

It will also be less efficient being so far away from the lovely hot air coming out of the engine but more power is more power and the advantages stack up here.

Good luck, seems like you're more of the way there than Johnny ever was.
And here we have it.. The question i was expecting :rofl:

Steven your right turbo lag is a problem. But turbo lag is a problem for well every turbo car. There are some very clever things you can do to eliminate it but they tend to be quite involved and i may employ some of them later.

I honestly don’t know what the lag will be like on this. But if you look up remote or rear mount turbos. It seems to be not as bad as what you would initially think. Remember it’s a closed system so management of exhaust and boosted intake are important . So a hose pipe that’s empty will take a while for water to come out once a tap is turned on. A hose that’s full the water comes out quickly. So having valves waste gate and dump and controlling them accurately can help this problem quite a lot.

Let’s also consider that some not all turbo lag can and is very often caused not just by exhaust gas before or getting to the turbine. But gas in the exhaust after the turbine back pressure. This can cause a turbo lag as it can’t spine as quickly. So any badly designed system can have lag. Even if the turbo was bolted as closely as physically possible.

We have taken every precaution I could to limit lag. The exhaust will be heat wrapped to minimise wasted energy. And as mentioned the turbo its self was chosen very specifically and the exhaust was designed to work as well as I can get it on my budget and without proper headers (at the moment)
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

User avatar
Roundozo
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:17 pm
Location: Hampshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Roundozo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:05 am

Smartbear wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 am:
Is it plumbed into the engines oil/coolant supply for cooling and lubrication?
Rob
This is what I was thinking? Is it a floating bearing inside the turbo? Are you going to run an oil feed line from the engine or have a standalone system?

It's a school day for me. Never heard of rear mounted turbos. Bet the noise will be awesome!
Past - Z4 Coupe, gone but not forgotten
Present - 530d M sport touring

User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Machine monkey » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:08 am

Smartbear wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 am
Steve84N wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am
Machine monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:41 am 3 There is no reason not to do it.
Erm, more turbo lag...

It will also be less efficient being so far away from the lovely hot air coming out of the engine but more power is more power and the advantages stack up here.

Good luck, seems like you're more of the way there than Johnny ever was.
Not sure about that, turbo's depend on exhaust gas velocity & not temperature to create boost pressure-the only issue I can think of is the convoluted route/length of pipe back to the inlet side of the engine, as the more joins=more potential for leaks?
I'm sure mat will overcome though :thumbsup:
Is it plumbed into the engines oil/coolant supply for cooling and lubrication?
Rob
Yeah your right the route back to the engine is a massive sacrifice. But there was no way of running it back to the car unless it was right next to the exhaust. I will have cooler charge temperatures so i am using a restively small intercooler. Lots of care has been taken to avoid any leaks. Had nothing this far.

It runs off its own oil system mounted in the boot pump and regulator to control feed. Thermostat housing oil cooler. Then return pump back. It’s been the most difficult part.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Machine monkey » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:10 am

Guys like I said I wanted to build something unusual. Not been done do I know if it will work no!
Do I know if I will have problems yes. This is all part of the journey of doing things your way and having an idea.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

User avatar
Ducklakeview
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 6362
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Merseyside

Monkey mans power adder

Post by Ducklakeview » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:11 am

WTF!!!
Posting this after reading the first couple of paragraphs Mat - You kept this quiet you old dark horse!!

Going back to continue reading - WITH INTEREST :)

Mike

Post Reply