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Monkey mans power adder

2003 - 2009, roadster, coupe, facelift
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Monkeydonkeyratmagic
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Post by Monkeydonkeyratmagic » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:03 pm

Have you considered having an Omex Ecu? Have the existing file copied over to maintain regular functions and then the cars afrs mapped to run boost? Won't be cheap but should provide an all in one solution to getting it all running.
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Post by Machine monkey » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:12 pm

Monkeydonkeyratmagic wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:03 pm Have you considered having an Omex Ecu? Have the existing file copied over to maintain regular functions and then the cars afrs mapped to run boost? Won't be cheap but should provide an all in one solution to getting it all running.
Hello fellow monkey tell me more? I shall google but I know nothing of them or it?
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Post by Machine monkey » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:28 pm

mac27040 wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:41 pm Hi Matt, when i installed my supercharger kit i had to use a bit of software that created a file, i then had to email it to VF Engineering who altered it as i have forced induction and bigger injectors, i then reinstalled it, i'm using standard ecu.
Yeah there are company’s in the USA that will offer this service. But I am not sure I want to do it this way. VF have done research and tested on a dyno on road. With mine it’s a little unknown.

It is just a fuel and ignition map but so much could go wrong. But yes it proves that the ecu is capable of tuning for forced induction. I just need someone local to do it. Who can put it on a roiling road or road tune.

The way I see it there are some very clever electronic boost controllers. Where you can program how the boost comes in held and all sorts of cool stuff. I have also found out I can ditch the MAF and instal a MAP sensor with a little trickery. And the ecu will recognise it and work fine.

Fingers crossed evolve or one of the other people I have messaged can help.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Post by Steve84N » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:29 pm

Omex or Pectel were the choices of ECU when I had a Fiesta and people were putting 2.0 engines in them with throttle bodies. :D
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Post by mac27040 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:30 pm

Try Northampton Motorsport, I used them years ago and they were brilliant
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Post by Monkeydonkeyratmagic » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 am

Machine monkey wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:12 pm
Monkeydonkeyratmagic wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:03 pm Have you considered having an Omex Ecu? Have the existing file copied over to maintain regular functions and then the cars afrs mapped to run boost? Won't be cheap but should provide an all in one solution to getting it all running.
Hello fellow monkey tell me more? I shall google but I know nothing of them or it?
Hail the Monkey.
http://omextechnology.co.uk/page8.html

This is probably the one needed. They do a lower spec model for up to 8cyl this is up to v12. But they do harnesses and all sorts. Quite a few company work on them as well. I haven't looked at prices but they are reputed to be very good. Have cone across a few over the year being run in 300 bhp Clios and civics.
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Post by ph001 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:41 am

Monkeydonkeyratmagic wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 am
Machine monkey wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:12 pm
Monkeydonkeyratmagic wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:03 pm Have you considered having an Omex Ecu? Have the existing file copied over to maintain regular functions and then the cars afrs mapped to run boost? Won't be cheap but should provide an all in one solution to getting it all running.
Hello fellow monkey tell me more? I shall google but I know nothing of them or it?
Hail the Monkey.
http://omextechnology.co.uk/page8.html

This is probably the one needed. They do a lower spec model for up to 8cyl this is up to v12. But they do harnesses and all sorts. Quite a few company work on them as well. I haven't looked at prices but they are reputed to be very good. Have cone across a few over the year being run in 300 bhp Clios and civics.
That is amazing value for money at £1k all in!! I used Motec in the past which was good but expensive. It fell down on getting traction control to work but I see they have a newer model out now in the form of the GPR-M130 which seems to handle traction control a lot better. It's still not dynamic stability control of course but as good as you will get http://www.motec.com/gpr-m130/gpr-m130-ov/ Bet you won't get much change out of £3k for one.

The other option is something like the Omex and then a Racelogic traction control bolt on. Easy enough but obviously added expense.
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Post by GuidoK » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:06 pm

^do those ecu's also do canbus integration etc so you can use your stock speedo and tacho, coolant temp etc?
I also sometimes think about an aftermarket ecu (because:much better tunable), but if I see real world implementations of people its usually in very spartan cars without any luxury (basically empty shells with an engine), and not luxury fully equipped german roadsters.
Alarm (EWS) integration & insurance might also be an issue.
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Post by Monkeydonkeyratmagic » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:57 pm

GuidoK wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:06 pm ^do those ecu's also do canbus integration etc so you can use your stock speedo and tacho, coolant temp etc?
I also sometimes think about an aftermarket ecu (because:much better tunable), but if I see real world implementations of people its usually in very spartan cars without any luxury (basically empty shells with an engine), and not luxury fully equipped german roadsters.
Alarm (EWS) integration & insurance might also be an issue.

Yep. The top models are fully speccd. They do basic ones for race cars that don't have any mod cons like no abs and TCS etc but the better models are more for engine swap jobs and boost upgrades. I was tempted to try and squeeze the Focus ST engine into my fiesta st but the fiesta actually cannot accommodate the ECU due to some weird mounting issue so would require an Omex or similar to get it running. Would literally be a clone of a Focus ECU to Omex, code fiesta keys to unlock the car and functions on it and bang off I go for a mapping session after making some changes to it.
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Yep no Z yet. On the hunt.

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Post by Mister T » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:40 pm

Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330

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Post by GuidoK » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:04 pm

Monkeydonkeyratmagic wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:57 pm
Yep. The top models are fully speccd. They do basic ones for race cars that don't have any mod cons like no abs and TCS etc but the better models are more for engine swap jobs and boost upgrades.
That doesnt fully answer my question. Primarily the canbus integration with the instrument binnacle and integration with the EWS.
Mister T wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:40 pm Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330
Thats a replacement for an m54 in an 330i.
The e46 330i has a different ecu (ms43 instead of ms45) and has a different pinout schematic.
Z4 ecu's are much harder to emulate/tune (both z4 and z4m ecu's) than their e46 counterparts, but it looks promising; maybe they can do an alterated version. And I still doubt it will integrate with the EWS, because that is something that must be programmed (ecu and ews are linked with serial numbers in order for the ews to work). Why is this important? Because otherwise your car cant be insured against theft for example.

I've never seen an application (real life installed example) of an aftermarket ecu in a Z4 with full functionality compared to the stock ecu.
The z4 market is very limited, and ECU wise the z4 is a different car from the e46. The z4m guys have that same problem.
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Post by Machine monkey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:45 pm

Lots for me to look at.
Your right the can bus is a big problem. Witchbis why I would if I went stand-alone. Most likely run them in parallel. Basically the stock ecu would think it’s doing it’s job as usual. But in fact would just be controlling the chassis. The stand-alone would be controlling the engine. This has been done before. And the guy I would be getting to do it is confident it would work.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Post by Machine monkey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Mister T wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:40 pm Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330
I will take a look at this. But I think I have looked at this and dismissed it previously for being a bit basic. But if it works I might look again.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Post by Machine monkey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:15 pm

If I go stand-alone it will be either a link or a haltech
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Post by pokeybritches » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:23 pm

The issue is the tools to tune the ECU are outrageously expensive.

Injectors are easy to account for, once you have those tools. The injectors should have come with a matrix of values that are plugged into the tuned file.

The adjustments needed for the modified intake system are different and require a bit of tweaking. The transfer function for the MAF sensor can be figured out with a bit of trial and error (if you’ve modified the intake system at all, which you have in this case, then the transfer function changes... even if it is the same MAF sensor). You can probably get away with not tweaking the transfer function on your car, but it will only give you a tune that’s “close” and not optimal.

Most tuners don’t mess with the factory tables for part throttle / closed loop values, because once the injector values and intake is accounted for, the fuel trims are pretty close. Tuners extend the WOT / open loop maps and make their adjustments there. You’ll either need a data logger or dyno in addition to the software to edit the fuel maps.

To get the fuel maps, software companies decrypt the ECU and find patterns to determine fuel maps. These files are sold to tuners, who then make their tweaks (meaning there’s a cost involved, even if you do the tuning yourself). No one to my knowledge has cracked the MS45.0 DME and offered the ability to modify fuel tables via open source source software.

A dyno is preferable to have when you adjust the fuel tables. AFR, timing, Vanos adjustment, etc. are kinda up to the tuner, but there are standard techniques you can employ to get a solid, safe tune.

Even if you input the injector tables, modify the transfer function for the intake system and MAF, and get your open loop fuel tables right, you still need the software to remove things like the torque limiter that’s buried in the programming of the DME.

TLDR: Pay a reputable tuner, and not someone that offers a generic flash with slightly altered fuel tables for an otherwise standard car. When my supercharged Z4 was modified beyond the standard VF kit, the tuner had to build the files from scratch... which took days for a pro with his own personal dyno. My advice is to not try to tune it yourself, because the necessary tools are beyond the scope of your project.
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