Engine Oil LL-01 vs LL-4

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Sun May 14, 2017 9:42 am

4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:27 am Have a quick look guys and tell me which part confused you more!? Wtf, LL-04 only for diesel engines?

https://www.oildepot.ca/bmw-motor-oil-s ... explained/

This, again relates to the USA, not Europe. Their fuel compositions are different to Europe. As mentioned throughout this thread the different regional oil spec' requirements take account of the Sulphur content and other additives that are used in the fuel. This dictates which oil is specified by BMW according to where you are.

If you go by the spec in the manual for your car you can't go wrong.

I had an interesting chat with an Indi' I know who also prepares and races F1 Sidecar outfits, tour'car BMW's and Subaru, he really knows his stuff and says he sticks with Castrol and Petronas Oils including for his race outfit (which is a bonkers Kawasaki ex championship winning engine) He says re my Subaru Turbo and Z4 that he services, that these are "the best oils, use what the book says and just keep changing it regularly".

4zwmb · Post by **4zwmb** » Sun May 14, 2017 10:11 am

Ewazix wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:42 am
4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:27 am Have a quick look guys and tell me which part confused you more!? Wtf, LL-04 only for diesel engines?

https://www.oildepot.ca/bmw-motor-oil-s ... explained/
This, again relates to the USA, not Europe. Their fuel compositions are different to Europe. As mentioned throughout this thread the different regional oil spec' requirements take account of the Sulphur content and other additives that are used in the fuel. This dictates which oil is specified by BMW according to where you are.

If you go by the spec in the manual for your car you can't go wrong.

I had an interesting chat with an Indi' I know who also prepares and races F1 Sidecar outfits, tour'car BMW's and Subaru, he really knows his stuff and says he sticks with Castrol and Petronas Oils including for his race outfit (which is a bonkers Kawasaki ex championship winning engine) He says re my Subaru Turbo and Z4 that he services, that these are "the best oils, use what the book says and just keep changing it regularly".

Interesting to hear the reviews of a professional Indi...Yes if you go by the spec in the manual of your car, you cant go wrong but like I said, in the manual both LL-01 and LL-04 are approved, it does not mention anything about in which countries/regions to use one or the other...I suspect LL-01 can be used anywhere in the world, LL-04 can only be used in Europe. But then again, its only my non professional hunch.

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Sun May 14, 2017 7:32 pm

4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 10:11 am
Ewazix wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:42 am
4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:27 am Have a quick look guys and tell me which part confused you more!? Wtf, LL-04 only for diesel engines?

https://www.oildepot.ca/bmw-motor-oil-s ... explained/
This, again relates to the USA, not Europe. Their fuel compositions are different to Europe. As mentioned throughout this thread the different regional oil spec' requirements take account of the Sulphur content and other additives that are used in the fuel. This dictates which oil is specified by BMW according to where you are.

If you go by the spec in the manual for your car you can't go wrong.

I had an interesting chat with an Indi' I know who also prepares and races F1 Sidecar outfits, tour'car BMW's and Subaru, he really knows his stuff and says he sticks with Castrol and Petronas Oils including for his race outfit (which is a bonkers Kawasaki ex championship winning engine) He says re my Subaru Turbo and Z4 that he services, that these are "the best oils, use what the book says and just keep changing it regularly".
Interesting to hear the reviews of a professional Indi...Yes if you go by the spec in the manual of your car, you cant go wrong but like I said, in the manual both LL-01 and LL-04 are approved, it does not mention anything about in which countries/regions to use one or the other...I suspect LL-01 can be used anywhere in the world, LL-04 can only be used in Europe. But then again, its only my non professional hunch.

It seems Malta went to Ultra low sulphur fuels (10 parts per million or less) in 2009 so LL01 was recommended, later superseded by LL04 which is 'improved' and backwards compatible, but only with petrol engines originally specified for LL01 and now running on ultra low sulphur petrol.
http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Downl ... emid=10692

The UK was ahead of some EU countries as it went to ultra low sulphur petrol in 2005
http://www.ukpia.com/industry_issues/fu ... fuels.aspx

Apparently all the advice for American markets was issues independently from Munich by BMW USA as a result of warranty issues with later cars using LL04 on US higher sulphur petrol, hence the contradictions in some documentation.

So logically your car, on Maltese ULS petrol can use LL01 or LL04 (but 04 is 'better'). So it's by the book then

By the way I'm no expert, I'm just handy at researching info back to authoritative sources (or OCD about shi'z as my daughter says)

4zwmb · Post by **4zwmb** » Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Ewazix, you are an expert researcher in my opinion! Thanks for all that info! You have been very helpful indeed and I learnt a lot from you, been asking about this issue for months now, you were the only one to come up with a really concrete explanation!

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Sun May 14, 2017 9:57 pm

4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm Ewazix, you are an expert researcher in my opinion! Thanks for all that info! You have been very helpful indeed and I learnt a lot from you, been asking about this issue for months now, you were the only one to come up with a really concrete explanation!

No prob's, you can buy me a beer if I'm ever in Malta

4zwmb · Post by **4zwmb** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:36 am

Ewazix wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:57 pm
4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm Ewazix, you are an expert researcher in my opinion! Thanks for all that info! You have been very helpful indeed and I learnt a lot from you, been asking about this issue for months now, you were the only one to come up with a really concrete explanation!
No prob's, you can buy me a beer if I'm ever in Malta

I wont buy you a beer! Thats singular! You can have as much as you want to, bill is on me! Do tell me if you are ever planning a vacation over here, I would be more than glad to show you around and take you to the best places!

I also live alone and my place has four bedrooms, you and your family can stay with me, free of charge, no problem at all.

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Mon May 15, 2017 7:45 am

4zwmb wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 6:36 am
Ewazix wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:57 pm
4zwmb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm Ewazix, you are an expert researcher in my opinion! Thanks for all that info! You have been very helpful indeed and I learnt a lot from you, been asking about this issue for months now, you were the only one to come up with a really concrete explanation!
No prob's, you can buy me a beer if I'm ever in Malta
I wont buy you a beer! Thats singular! You can have as much as you want to, bill is on me! Do tell me if you are ever planning a vacation over here, I would be more than glad to show you around and take you to the best places! I also live alone and my place has four bedrooms, you and your family can stay with me, free of charge, no problem at all.

Super generous offer, you never know

4zwmb · Post by **4zwmb** » Mon May 15, 2017 11:20 am

4zwmb · Post by **4zwmb** » Mon May 15, 2017 9:07 pm

Latest reply in relation to this topic for you z4 drivers out there:

Hi Ruben,

Thanks very much for your question. As we are located in North America, I can't speak to European regulations. But from our perspective, the sulfur content of the fuel has nothing to do with engine oil choice.

According to our US-based application guide, your engine (and most BMW application with gasoline engines) require an engine oil with the BMW LL-01 specification. The BMW LL-01 spec requires a high "SAPS" level. SAPS is sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. These are common anti-wear and detergent ingredients in motor oil.

I just looked on the Castrol Europe site and they do not seem to offer an LL-01 product. So it may be possible LL-01 is not offered in some European countries because of the higher SAPS level? I'm speculating, but perhaps these higher additive levels maybe curbed by EU regulations and that may be the reason that LL-01 is not offered?

The LL-04 spec is a low to mid-SAPS specification. The reason BMW LL-04 is lower-SAPS is that sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur can cause problems with diesel particulate filters. Engine oil formulas that carry the BMW LL-04 can certainly be used in gasoline engines. In North America, it is generally suggested for diesel BMW engines only because we have LL-01 products available.

So as your manual suggest LL-01 or LL-04, you are fine to use either. We would lean toward LL-01 (if you can attain a product with this spec) as has a more robust high-SAPS content.

Again, as we are North American-based, your best bet would be to contact Castrol of Europe for a definitive answer. Ruben thanks again for your question and sorry that we are offering some speculation.

Best Regards,

Marc Roden

This came from AMSOIL by the way.

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