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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Discuss problems you have had or are having with your Z4
mjennings23
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:10 pm

P4K1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:43 pm Sounds lie steering angle senor need recalibrating or replace it ,in some cases wheels alignment sorts the problem out . Reading can be cheeked with inpa, should 0 degrees when going straight .
Didn't get around to checking this last night but will over the weekend.

On another note it seems to be happening closer to centre now, so this is making me think it's more serious than the angle sensor unfortunately.

Rebuilding the column isn't something I'd fancy tackling myself, as I don't have some of the required gear, most likely lack the skills and would certainly make a mess of something :rofl:

Spoke to BBA Reman and they offer a rebuild service for a reasonable cost, I'm comfortable enough removing and refitting myself so this could be the best option.

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:34 pm

Managed to pull this error report off INPA today

E R R O R M E M O R Y
---------------------------------------
Date: 19.08.2017 14:00:19
ECU: EPS_85_2
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: EPS_85_2
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 1 error in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
611C Fehler Code 16: Lenkmoment

Error counter: 22

Mileage 166856 km
Drehmoment Lenkrad sinus 4.71 Volt
Drehmoment Lenkrad cosinus 3.63 Volt
Drehmoment 0.93 Nm
Radius Momentensensorsignal 2.43 Volt
Radius Momentensensorsignal gefiltert 1.86 Volt

kein passendes Fehlersymptom
Testbedingungen erfuellt
Fehler momentan vorhanden und bereits gespeichert
Fehler wuerde das Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Type Nr.6: zu hoch

Error code: 61 1C E0 06 16 51 79 03 C4 02 E7 00 3F 01 F1 01 7C =============================================================

Does this mean anything to any of you?


The steering angle sensor is working fine, and the torque sensor seems to be working fine too until it randomly cuts out. I should also say that the point it cuts out seems to be variable now, still always the left turn side but at various points, sometimes even on the way back to centre after taking a turn.

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by MACK » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:57 am

I would double check the wiring plug to the column. Some folks on here have experienced that coming loose. It's a fairly simple thing to check and best of all it's free. If your lucky you could just have an intermittent power issue because of that.

On a more sour note some folks have had a complete failure of the eps ecu. Not a cheap fix but I seem to remember the likes of ecu testing and bba reman have been able to fix them.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by MACK » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:58 am

I would double check the wiring plug to the column. Some folks on here have experienced that coming loose. It's a fairly simple thing to check and best of all it's free. If your lucky you could just have an intermittent power issue because of that.

On a more sour note some folks have had a complete failure of the eps ecu. Not a cheap fix but I seem to remember the likes of ecu testing and bba reman have been able to fix them.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by MACK » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:05 pm

MACK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:57 am If the torque and steering angle sensors are not at fault I would double check the wiring plug to the column. Some folks on here have experienced that coming loose. It's a fairly simple thing to check and best of all it's free. If your lucky you could just have an intermittent power issue because of that.

On a more sour note some folks have had a complete failure of the eps ecu. Not a cheap fix but I seem to remember the likes of ecu testing and bba reman have been able to fix them.

Hell I would even check the battery and it's connections as the eps is one of the first systems effected when these play up.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:05 pm

I'll have a check of that, hopefully today or tomorrow. Is this reachable without detaching the column from the car?

I've been in contact with both of them already regarding a rebuild, and the prices are bearable... an awful lot less than Β£2k plus for a new one, and not much different to the price of a second hand part, which would be another unknown.

As far as I'm aware, the battery is only 2 years old, but I'll get a multimeter on it to see. Around 12.5v with the engine off is correct, I seem to remember?

The only reason I havent really considered power issues is its not an intermittent issue, it will always happen when turning left, and never when turning right, which is leading me to think there's an internal connection possibly damaged.

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by MACK » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:31 pm

Not sure why my previous post appears three times.πŸ˜‚ maybe something to do with me being in a poor signal area.

As others have said and you, it's probably a bad connection. What mileage/ year is yours on? My advice probably only really applies if you manage to rule these out. However that said the wiring plug on the rack and the battety connections may only disconnect when the car is moved in a certain direction so still worth a check as a cost free measure. If i remeber correctly the ecu plug csn be reached with out to much hassle. intermittent faults can be a nightmare to accurately diagnose. I would try using inpa etc to monitor the rack and turn it incredibly slowly as it may fault in one tiny spot (maybe a couple of mm) and see if you can replicate it over and over. This would rule out the inertia of the car causing a disconnect and confirm it's in the rack itself. Easy to say but not do easy to do unfortunately.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:35 pm

MACK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:31 pm Not sure why my previous post appears three times.πŸ˜‚ maybe something to do with me being in a poor signal area.

As others have said and you, it's probably a bad connection. What mileage/ year is yours on? My advice probably only really applies if you manage to rule these out. However that said the wiring plug on the rack and the battety connections may only disconnect when the car is moved in a certain direction so still worth a check as a cost free measure. If i remeber correctly the ecu plug csn be reached with out to much hassle. intermittent faults can be a nightmare to accurately diagnose. I would try using inpa etc to monitor the rack and turn it incredibly slowly as it may fault in one tiny spot (maybe a couple of mm) and see if you can replicate it over and over. This would rule out the inertia of the car causing a disconnect and confirm it's in the rack itself. Easy to say but not do easy to do unfortunately.
Aha, I have managed to get it to replicate when the car is stationary so movement of a connection is unlikely? Also, if I turn the wheel to the left and restart the engine, it can cut out the EPS when returning to centre as well, it just doesn't cut out anywhere on the right side of centre.

The cars done 104k miles so I'm not shocked, I figure a rebuild would at least give me peace of mind, I know BBA offer a lifetime warranty on their rebuilds which is reassuring.

Edit: In fact, the column has been replaced with a second hand unit previously, to resolve a different EPS issue. INPA reads the build date of the column to be 5/03 so a very early model. In this case, I'm thinking the rebuild is just the simpler, safer option as it means I know everything is good.

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by Buckz » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:45 pm

If it is the column then yes rebuild will probably work out better! But if it's something else then you'll be looking at extra money, I'd say you need to find out exactly what the issue is first. Even tho I agree it is pointing to the column and nothing else. Especially if it's that random.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Indeed, I'll check plugs etc but aside from that I can't see what else would be causing it. Initially I thought it might be a dry rack that needs some grease, but there isn't any surges in torque when monitoring it failing, it just seems to cut off.

Speaking of which, anyone able to advise me on pulling logs from INPA?

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by raymond.harper » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:46 pm

Last time I checked with BMW the upper power steering column was Β£2500 plus vat and only an 8 week waiting list !

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:22 pm

raymond.harper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:46 pm Last time I checked with BMW the upper power steering column was Β£2500 plus vat and only an 8 week waiting list !
Oh, is that all? Bargain!


:rofl:
I'll stick with the ~Β£300 rebuild and 3 day turnaround I think :roll:

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by raymond.harper » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:36 pm

mjennings23 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:22 pm
raymond.harper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:46 pm Last time I checked with BMW the upper power steering column was Β£2500 plus vat and only an 8 week waiting list !
Oh, is that all? Bargain!


:rofl:
I'll stick with the ~Β£300 rebuild and 3 day turnaround I think :roll:
I just hope they will be able to fix it Β£300! Do not be at all surprised if the bill goes up by a factor of 3. Mine was going to cost Β£1250.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticle ... cement.htm good luck witht the replacement

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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by MACK » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:16 pm

mjennings23 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:35 pm
MACK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:31 pm Not sure why my previous post appears three times.πŸ˜‚ maybe something to do with me being in a poor signal area.

As others have said and you, it's probably a bad connection. What mileage/ year is yours on? My advice probably only really applies if you manage to rule these out. However that said the wiring plug on the rack and the battety connections may only disconnect when the car is moved in a certain direction so still worth a check as a cost free measure. If i remeber correctly the ecu plug csn be reached with out to much hassle. intermittent faults can be a nightmare to accurately diagnose. I would try using inpa etc to monitor the rack and turn it incredibly slowly as it may fault in one tiny spot (maybe a couple of mm) and see if you can replicate it over and over. This would rule out the inertia of the car causing a disconnect and confirm it's in the rack itself. Easy to say but not do easy to do unfortunately.
Aha, I have managed to get it to replicate when the car is stationary so movement of a connection is unlikely? Also, if I turn the wheel to the left and restart the engine, it can cut out the EPS when returning to centre as well, it just doesn't cut out anywhere on the right side of centre.

The cars done 104k miles so I'm not shocked, I figure a rebuild would at least give me peace of mind, I know BBA offer a lifetime warranty on their rebuilds which is reassuring.

Edit: In fact, the column has been replaced with a second hand unit previously, to resolve a different EPS issue. INPA reads the build date of the column to be 5/03 so a very early model. In this case, I'm thinking the rebuild is just the simpler, safer option as it means I know everything is good.
Chances are your original column was suffering sticking steering (unless you know differently of course) and there's suppose to be a relatively simple fix for that . Which is obviously annoying for you now because if the original was fixed you probably wouldn't be having trouble now. Ive seen folks say they spent between Β£300-700 on a column repair which is obviously alot cheaper than bmw. Plus no coding is required if have your existing rack fixed although you could probably avoid that if the ecu is fine and you swap it from one rack to the other .

From what you've said it sounds like it's definetly something in the rack rather than a loose external connection etc my choice would be take it off, repair it yourself or send it to ecu testing over bba reman as they seem to have a much better reputation these days.

Good luck with it.
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EPS failing in specific circumstances

Post by mjennings23 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:46 pm

MACK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:16 pm
mjennings23 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:35 pm
MACK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:31 pm Not sure why my previous post appears three times.πŸ˜‚ maybe something to do with me being in a poor signal area.

As others have said and you, it's probably a bad connection. What mileage/ year is yours on? My advice probably only really applies if you manage to rule these out. However that said the wiring plug on the rack and the battety connections may only disconnect when the car is moved in a certain direction so still worth a check as a cost free measure. If i remeber correctly the ecu plug csn be reached with out to much hassle. intermittent faults can be a nightmare to accurately diagnose. I would try using inpa etc to monitor the rack and turn it incredibly slowly as it may fault in one tiny spot (maybe a couple of mm) and see if you can replicate it over and over. This would rule out the inertia of the car causing a disconnect and confirm it's in the rack itself. Easy to say but not do easy to do unfortunately.
Aha, I have managed to get it to replicate when the car is stationary so movement of a connection is unlikely? Also, if I turn the wheel to the left and restart the engine, it can cut out the EPS when returning to centre as well, it just doesn't cut out anywhere on the right side of centre.

The cars done 104k miles so I'm not shocked, I figure a rebuild would at least give me peace of mind, I know BBA offer a lifetime warranty on their rebuilds which is reassuring.

Edit: In fact, the column has been replaced with a second hand unit previously, to resolve a different EPS issue. INPA reads the build date of the column to be 5/03 so a very early model. In this case, I'm thinking the rebuild is just the simpler, safer option as it means I know everything is good.
Chances are your original column was suffering sticking steering (unless you know differently of course) and there's suppose to be a relatively simple fix for that . Which is obviously annoying for you now because if the original was fixed you probably wouldn't be having trouble now. Ive seen folks say they spent between Β£300-700 on a column repair which is obviously alot cheaper than bmw. Plus no coding is required if have your existing rack fixed although you could probably avoid that if the ecu is fine and you swap it from one rack to the other .

From what you've said it sounds like it's definetly something in the rack rather than a loose external connection etc my choice would be take it off, repair it yourself or send it to ecu testing over bba reman as they seem to have a much better reputation these days.

Good luck with it.
Believe it was a complete torque sensor failure on the old column, perhaps the rebuild idea was not considered, but no matter now! I'll check plugs etc tomorrow but I'm not hopeful, especially with it seemingly getting more random each day telling me something is probably getting worse.

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