Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:26 am

Ok Bruce, so I need more info now we know the wiring is not damaged ( this is very common and often goes in noticed )

Some questions

1. How much did you have to build up the switch with foam , in mm's ( is the cone that triggers the switch worn or damaged ?)

2. When the roof is stowed in the boot and the boot lid doesn't close, does it close if you press and hold the close button a second time ?

3. As soon as the roof stows in the boot ( you have 5 seconds or so ) if you lift the edge of the bottom roof panel with your hand as if trying to lift it out and then drop it again does the roof lock down in the boot ?

4. When you trick the micro switch with the foam, does the complete roof mechanism then work as it should ? In other words ....Does the roof stow in the boot and the boot lid then close as if everything is ok in one movement ( or if it stops with the boot open does it close if you press and hold the button a second time ? ) If it does, does the boot lid still open from the rear for luggage access ?


There are 4 sensors and 7 micro switches in the assembly .

Micro switches

We can assume that the top section of the roof is working correctly as it latches onto the screen when closing and as you've added foam to the boot micro switch it will latch when it's stowed in the boot, this eliminates 3 micro switches , 1 in the top edge of the windscreen trim and 2 in the latch mechanism.

There are two micro switches one each side of the rear screen section , directly on the lower edge of each side of the rear screen rams ( where the rear screen lowers onto the closed boot lid) , I believe these aren't faulty as apart from the latching issue in the boot your roof otherwise works ok ? These switches are handed left and right side and aren't interchangeable .

The two remaining micro switches are on the boot hinge rams , these trigger the boot lid to close after the roof is stowed in the boot. Now I know your roof isn't locking as it should, but in my experience , I've seen this before and when the boot lid closes it triggers the roof to latch in the stowed position, so the fault could be one of these two micro switches, this is why I am asking about boot opening problems as these switches seem linked to boot opening problems . It's a game of chance with these switches , if you follow my guide in the linked post you can change these easily , it could be either switch. These switches are handed left and right side they aren't interchangeable .

Hall sensors ( these sensors are all the same part, just 4 of them )

There is 1 hall sensor in the boot, it's under a plastic trim panel that the boot partition locks down on to . This must be ok as if it wasn't the roof wouldn't work at all .

There is 1 hall sensor in the rear screen folding panel, it's located in the drivers side ( RHD car ) hydraulic ram casing , but as the rear screen panel appears to be operating as it should , I do not think this is the problem .

There are 2 hall sensors in the boot hydraulic ram , these are both in one ram , drivers side ( RHD car ), now if as I asked when the operation of roof stowage stops, if it then operates fully when you press the button a second time , it could be one of these sensors . You need will need to check the hinges/ram assembly to check which has the sensors in it , as I say it's the drivers side on a RHD car but could be different on a LHD car, but the ram with the sensors will have a lot more wiring cable tied onto it . You will need to remove the ram/hinge from its bolted position following my guide in the linked post, when the ram/hinge is free, with the ram upright with the micro switch end upper most I would try the upper sensor first , but it could be either . A tell tail sign that a sensor is faulty is that they crack around the edges , but you have to look very closely with a magnifying lense to see the cracks, but as you probably won't have to change the plugs on the hall sensors on your car ( unlike older cars ) you can remove the sensors from the rams , they just clip in and inspect them .

[IMG]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... lexhud.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... okjfk.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... efnzjb.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... oxxdj1.jpg[/IMG]

Cracked sensor
[IMG]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... giaif.jpeg[/IMG]

Again if you can answer the question I have asked , things might be clearer for me trying to solve your issue .

The sensors and switches are not expensive , in fact the most expensive is the one you said has already been changed . With the guide I have previously done you should be able to change these yourself without issue . I have changed all the sensors before, and all the switches except the switches on the rear screen panel, but they don't look difficult .

Let me know how you get on .
Last edited by Dietcokeman on Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

PennBruce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:57 am

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:57 pm

I just went out to the garage to try your suggestion #3. I cycled the roof through three cycles. It stowed correctly each time.

#1 5 mm of foam tape. The cone looks okay.

#2 Subsequent pressing does nothing although it sounds like the pump is running when the button is pressed.

#3 Could not try as top did not fail.

#4 With the foam on the switch, top stows normally with one continuous pressing of the button.

The only thing I did differently is that I used the key fob to open and close the top for the first two cycles.

Perhaps it has self corrected (wishful thinking).

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:43 pm

1.When you cycled the roof 3 times was that with the foam on the switch ?

2. Do you have any issues with boot opening to the luggage space when the roof is down ? Or window dropping or raising issues when you operate the roof ?

3. Do you have a smart top module or similar( for key operated remote opening and closing ) or is this standard on your car ? ( it's not on my previous 2009 E89 )

I've had two different cars brought to me to fix where the boot lid stayed upright after the roof stowed into the boot, both of these turned out to be cracked hall sensors, the upper of the two shown in my pictures . I would check these sensors Bruce as its looking more likely that one of these is your problem . As I mentioned before, I've seen this before and the roof isn't locking down and you naturally think this is the problem but when you change the offending hall sensors in the boot hinge the roof locks down and the boot closes as it should .

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:58 am

I've edited my post Bruce , upper sensor is the one I've changed twice .

PennBruce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:57 am

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:17 pm

I had removed the tape before I cycled the top as I wanted to try your suggestion on gently pushing the top down.

The boot opens and closes with no problems.

The windows go down and up with the top also with no problems.

Today, I tried lowering the top. It didn't work so I tried gently pushing the top. That was sufficient to enable the roof hooks to engage and complete the opening cycle. The only difference from yesterday is temperature. Yesterday was much above our normal temperature.

The remote top operation is an optional feature of the Z4 not an add on.

When I finally bring it back to the dealer, I will point them at the hall sensors.

Thank you for your help.
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:14 am

Well I hope you get it sorted Bruce. My money is on a a hall sensors .im sure you know but in case you need to refer to this again when I say "boot " it means " trunk " ( luggage area ) . Remote opening wasn't an option on earlier cars by the way , you had to get a aftermarket roof module fitted which was why I asked , good to know things move on . Good luck, and don't forget to let us know what the dealer did to fix it . ( not that dealer always tell the complete truth ! ) but be good to know what they report .

PennBruce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:57 am

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:55 am

A quick update.

The top has been working flawlessly for the past two months. I am convinced that it is a temperature related fault. We shall see if the fault reoccurs in October when the temperature drops.

The Z will be going into winter storage in November.

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

User avatar
Kugaman1
Member
Member
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:16 pm
Location: North East Scotland

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Kugaman1 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:36 am

Good to hear your sorted Bruce.

Thanks to Dietcokeman for another thread of excellent information. I really hope I never need to ask you for roof advice, but its good to know that if I do, you are so helpful!

Post Reply