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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:20 am

I found this forum while researching Hall sensors on E89. I am thinking my problem may be a misaligned sensor.

I recently installed a rear view camera system. I did this just after I put the Z back on the road so I hadn't driven it for five months. Finally had a warm day and I tried to put the top down.

Here's a video showing the problem:

https://youtu.be/O9JesM1avPQ

The dealer couldn't fix it, so they brought in a factory rep. He decided that I must have bent the top mechanism when running the wires through the trunk. His theory is that I left tools in the upper area of the trunk and then put the top down. His evidence for this is a minuscule paint chip on the leading edge of the rear window.

Image

I ran the wires down the passenger side of the trunk. There is a sensor in the area so it is possible that I knocked it out of alignment.

The dealer thinks it's a software problem from the rear cam installation. So the next step is to remove the cam and have the software reloaded, $247 my expense.

Their ultimate solution is to replace the entire top at a cost of $20,985 my expense.

Has anyone else had a similar problem with the top? If so, I need to hear from you.

Thanks,

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

firebobby
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Location: South west Buckinghamshire

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by firebobby » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:28 am

Hi mate, how about a bit more info about you and your car. You will get a better response from the forum members if you give vehicle details etc. Oh and some photos don't hurt either :poke:
Sounds like the dealers are taking your pants down by the way.
Welcome to the forum :)
BMW Z4 30i 2003 auto 107's Whippy Toledo Blue
Beige M sport seats, wood dash
Toyota MR2 NA 1995
Triumph GT6 1972 (project)
Land Rover Discovery 1994 TDI (Tow car)
Mini 1000 1981

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:37 pm

The URL for the top video has changed:

https://youtu.be/dpWos4FEL2M

The Z is a 2016.

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=95385

Look at the roof main hinge section of the post above , it looks to me like your roof is not latching into the boot storage position correctly , the micro switch isn't being triggered to then close the boot as the roof isn't locked correctly in the boot .

The hall sensors are fitted into the Rams on these so unless you removed the sensor it's unlikely you knocked one out of position , they take a lot to move them from there fitted position . The only one in the passenger floor pan (RHD car) is under a plastic trim cover that the boot partition locks onto for roof opening and if that was out of alignment the boot partition wouldn't trigger the roof to allow any opening at all, so it's not that sensor either .

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:15 pm

Dietcokeman,

There are two prongs on the top that appear to lock the top down in the closed position. It seems that it should use the same method to lock it when it is open. However, there doesn't seem to any mechanism that locks the prongs when the top is in the open position.

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Maniac
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Maniac » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:52 pm

Says video
Removed.

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:14 pm

PennBruce wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:15 pm Dietcokeman,

There are two prongs on the top that appear to lock the top down in the closed position. It seems that it should use the same method to lock it when it is open. However, there doesn't seem to any mechanism that locks the prongs when the top is in the open position.

Bruce
Bruce did you see the link at the top of my first post in this thread ? If so look at the 8th colour photo ( not the parts diagrams ) and you will see the metal bar in the boot compartment that the roof hooks should lock onto when the roof is stowed in the boot space , there is one each side of the boot , these mirrors the bars in the top of the windscreen for when the roof locks in its closed position ( roof up )

To me your video looks like the roof is trying to lock onto the bars but is failing and as the hook swivel to lock the roof , in its stowed position the roof is push upwards as the hooks go above the bars instead of under them .

There is a micro switch mounted just to the side of one of these boot lock bars and the wiring for that switch runs down the side of the hinge mounting and often gets chaffed through , read my original link above and I think you will find the cause of your problem .

If not send me more info .

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:41 am

I am sorry, I was skimming through several forums and I had not read your linked post.

In the pic your Torx driver is pointing at the switch that tells the car that the top is completely down. This switch was replaced (supposedly) by the dealer. I know that it's working because if I depress it the trunk lid will close onto the top. Is there another micro switch at this location?

I still don't understand how the roof hooks lock into the trunk bar. Does something move to lock the roof hooks to the trunk bars?

I need to look at the bars and see if I can tell if the hooks are riding on top of the bar instead of under the bar.

A great write up on the top mechanism. I should print it out and and give it to the techs at my dealer.

Thanks,

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:54 am

I can reach in through the trunk pass through and should be able to feel the location of the roof hooks. I'll try it this weekend.

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:02 am

See the third post. I replaced the video.

Bruce
Maniac wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:52 pm Says video
Removed.
Last edited by PennBruce on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

PennBruce
Newbie
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:57 am

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:17 am

Here's a link to a picture of the roof hook with the top down:

https://goo.gl/photos/WS9StyPFv61ArWU18

The hook is no where near the bar. Is the bar supposed to move to engage the roof hook and pull the top down?

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:28 am

Bruce, first please remember I am no expert of these things but I have managed to solve a few members problems here with what I've learned , but in all cases I could be guessing as much as anything .

However .....logic says .. if your micro switch has been changed.... that doesn't surprise me as it's the easiest one to get to , very few tech's these days diagnose problems they just change parts until it's fixed !!!...... But if you read my original posting you will see that the wiring for this switch and much of the other roof wiring runs up the side of the main hinge mounting ( driver side for RHD cars , but could be different on a LHD car ) . The proximity of the wiring to the folding hinge is very tight and I have seen wiring including my own worn through at this point . It could be that your switch wiring or wiring in this loom is chaffed through and the folding hinge is shorting a circuit before the roof is fully down, And thus not triggering the hooks to lock onto the pins , the pins do not move . Assuming the roof panel locks onto the screen when closed you know the hooks are moving as they should and it's not the micro switches in the roof panel being faulty . Have a look and let me know if you find damaged wiring or plugs in the boot micro switch wiring harness area I mention and if that solves the issue ..... if not we may need to think again .

Boot closing is triggered by the two micro switch on the end of the boot hinge Rams , one each side but first you need to get your roof in the right locked position .

You say that if you press the micro switch to trigger it ( the one they say they changed) the boot then closes ? If you close the boot with the roof not locked down correctly and drive the car you can damage the two folding roof panels , so I would advise you don't do that .

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:36 pm

Dietcokeman,

Any idea what triggers the roof hooks to close when the top is opened?

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

Dietcokeman

Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by Dietcokeman » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:09 am

Honestly ? Bruce are you actually reading what I'm bothering to write ?

The micro switch in the boot next to the locking pins is what I believe should trigger the hooks to lock onto the pins in the boot , there is also one on the top of the windscreen top edge that triggers the hooks to lock onto the top of the screen when it closes .we can assume your hooks are working correctly mechanically as you haven't said that the roof doesn't lock onto the screen when it closes, so something isn't triggering the hooks to lock when it's stowed in the boot ...so ... As I said ... check your wiring isn't damaged that feeds the micro switch in the boot first ,this wiring is next to the main ram hinge running down from the micro switch we believe isn't working correctly , you need to check this wiring area as this often gets damaged causing roof malfunctions.

If this wiring isn't damaged , then I would change the micro switch next to the pin first of all . ( I know you say it may have been changed already ) They aren't expensive and it's an easy part to change . All this info is in the linked posting I sent you originally .

If that doesn't solve it then we may have to look elsewhere for the problem .

PennBruce
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Z4 Top Problem - $20,985 Solution

Post by PennBruce » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:20 pm

The wiring looks good. It was stored this past winter so mouse damage is always a possibility but there is no evidence of mice in the car. BTW, the Z has just over 2,000 miles on the odometer.

The top will latch:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... Qybmk1R0lR

The switch is working and the roof hooks are working. I had to build up the switch lever with adhesive foam tape to get the roof to depress the switch to trigger the roof hooks.

When lowering the top, the roof doesn't go down far enough to trigger the roof hooks. There must be another sensor that is signalling the roof to stop short.

Bruce
1991 Miata
2009 328i (E93)
2016 Z4 sDrive28i

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