Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Discuss anything non Z4 related here
Zoomer
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by Zoomer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:08 pm

An interesting post started by Andy and quite interesting for myself as I get an itch to move up from my 3.0. The M is fantastic looking and an M, but the sensible option would be a 3.5i. I am drawn to thinking what the total cost of ownership against potential resale would be over say 1 to 2 years as it seems the newer e89 has less ownership costs than the M but the M would have a better resale. So on an M the good points are
Looks
Power
Resale
Grin factor
Bad points are
Tax
Service and spares costs
Age
Insurance

For the e89 3.5i
Good
Looks ( if you subtly mod it it)
Power ( can be mapped easily)
Creature comforts( sat nav that's half decent)
Long distance user Userability
Bad
Unknown residuals
Complexity
It's not an M

That's my conundrum. My heads says 3.5 my heart says M.

Open to others thoughts
:fuelfire:
Sterling Grey 3.0i E85 Black Heated Leather M sports seats , 224's ,Sat Nav, Bluetooth, Xenons, PDC, Gaptech ,Cruise and a nice warm garage. NOW GONE
Silver 3.0i Z4 NOW GONE

Steely
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 am

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by Steely » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:35 pm

I had a 3.0si coupe, it was nice, I enjoyed it, but I had experienced the Z3 M coupe and I preferred it’s raw edginess, I sold the 3.0 Z4 and vowed only to return to a Z4M coupe (that I am now looking for), having driven both 3.0 and M recently, I am definitely stuck on the M, but I hadn’t considered the E89! Until now... thanks! :lol:
— 07 BMW Z4M Coupe — 76 BMW 2002 — 75 ALFA GT Junior — 84 AUDI Coupe — 93 SAAB 900c —

Online
User avatar
mr wilks
Legend
Legend
Posts: 21895
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:02 pm
Location: Lancashire

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by mr wilks » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:52 pm

Zoomer / Steely , its a real tough dilemma & the answer will not be the same for all depending on how they buy / use & sell their cars
The Ms have a unique character & heritage all their own that can't be matched by any E89 but they aren't without failings so there are trade offs
The old cliche probably works here , try your alternatives out & see which makes the heart twitch :wink:
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo

Zoomer
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by Zoomer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:02 pm

And the question back Andy is which one makes your heart twitch? :roll:
Sterling Grey 3.0i E85 Black Heated Leather M sports seats , 224's ,Sat Nav, Bluetooth, Xenons, PDC, Gaptech ,Cruise and a nice warm garage. NOW GONE
Silver 3.0i Z4 NOW GONE

Online
User avatar
mr wilks
Legend
Legend
Posts: 21895
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:02 pm
Location: Lancashire

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by mr wilks » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:08 pm

Zoomer wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:02 pm And the question back Andy is which one makes your heart twitch? :roll:
Let's just say this time last year i did the Normandy trip in 3.0Si roady after previous year in a MR , , within 10 days of returning id sold the Si & bought the Imola MR :) can't see it happening this year though :wink:
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo

woolybear
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:35 am
Location: South Derbyshire.

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by woolybear » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:19 pm

Zoomer wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:02 pm And the question back Andy is which one makes your heart twitch? :roll:
For me, SIMPLES:
The ///M....

Everyone to their own, however :thumbsup:

Online
User avatar
mr wilks
Legend
Legend
Posts: 21895
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:02 pm
Location: Lancashire

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by mr wilks » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:37 pm

woolybear wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:19 pm
Zoomer wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:02 pm And the question back Andy is which one makes your heart twitch? :roll:
For me, SIMPLES:
The ///M....

Everyone to their own, however :thumbsup:
The idea is to actually drive them Paul :poke: :D :oops:
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo

woolybear
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:35 am
Location: South Derbyshire.

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by woolybear » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:04 am

I did, yesterday - for the 1st time in, what seems like: ages, Andy.. :o

Roof down and the fresh air and whirling noise - both, billowing around my ears, was awe inspiring...... :oops:

Makes one think, about the upgrade to the back boxes, again.... :thumbsup:

User avatar
MACK
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3600
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am
Location: Manchester

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by MACK » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 am

I suppose the real question is all things being equal and there's a 35i manual and a E85M in front of you, you can only take one home as a keeper, which one would you choose?
Silver 05 3.0i SE
Mods inc - F/L Xenons Clear Ind Rear Lights M Sport Seats & Wheel Eibach/B4 3.64 DIFF (SOLD)

White E89 20i M Sport
Mods inc- B12 kit, M3 Arms, 18" Zito 935's with PS4's, Decat & Remap, Switchable Exhaust Flap (SOLD)

Online
User avatar
mr wilks
Legend
Legend
Posts: 21895
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:02 pm
Location: Lancashire

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by mr wilks » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:18 am

MACK wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 am I suppose the real question is all things being equal and there's a 35i manual and a E85M in front of you, you can only take one home as a keeper, which one would you choose?
Time will tell , , i bought the 35i with specific long distance euro roadtrips in mind that i didn't fancy with my M roadster , not that it couldn't cope but after many long weekends touring Uk with Mrs W just wanted a little more cabin comfort & cruiser capabilities + id had the ZMR almost a year & didn't want to add potentially 7-8000miles in 7 months to its 80k .
I always have one eye on the exit as soon as i buy any weekender & this time its next summer so only at that point will i know whether to twist or stick & what the next move will be :wink:
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo

User avatar
MACK
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3600
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am
Location: Manchester

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by MACK » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:26 am

mr wilks wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:18 am
MACK wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 am I suppose the real question is all things being equal and there's a 35i manual and a E85M in front of you, you can only take one home as a keeper, which one would you choose?
Time will tell , , i bought the 35i with specific long distance euro roadtrips in mind that i didn't fancy with my M roadster , not that it couldn't cope but after many long weekends touring Uk with Mrs W just wanted a little more cabin comfort & cruiser capabilities + id had the ZMR almost a year & didn't want to add potentially 7-8000miles in 7 months to its 80k .
I always have one eye on the exit as soon as i buy any weekender & this time its next summer so only at that point will i know whether to twist or stick & what the next move will be :wink:
I know a forumite is already doing this but you really should/could write a book with your breath of zed experience!
Silver 05 3.0i SE
Mods inc - F/L Xenons Clear Ind Rear Lights M Sport Seats & Wheel Eibach/B4 3.64 DIFF (SOLD)

White E89 20i M Sport
Mods inc- B12 kit, M3 Arms, 18" Zito 935's with PS4's, Decat & Remap, Switchable Exhaust Flap (SOLD)

Zoomer
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by Zoomer » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:39 am

That’s a good idea.
Sterling Grey 3.0i E85 Black Heated Leather M sports seats , 224's ,Sat Nav, Bluetooth, Xenons, PDC, Gaptech ,Cruise and a nice warm garage. NOW GONE
Silver 3.0i Z4 NOW GONE

User avatar
tomscott
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by tomscott » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:26 am

MACK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:43 pm Looks great, the "Lardy E89" point of view is an interesting one. Depending where you look there seems to be about about 80-90Kgs between an 35i manual and an E85M. However there's about 120kg's between an E85M and a E85 3.0i but no one calls the M lardy! :P

I don't think the gulf in handling between the E89 and the M is that great either. BMW seem to miss the mark from the factory on both for different reasons and a quick search on here shows you how much better they both can be with some choice aftermarket suspension and decent tyres (E89).

Its a real shame the M Division didn't get let loose on the E89. The 35i manual as a base would have been great. Right engine and box, well it was good enough for the BMW 1M and we all know how well thought of that car is. If they coupled that to a LSD, Remap, Nice Exhaust, Non Runflats and some well thought out springs/shocks it could have been right up there. Certainly would have enhanced the models perception.
With the above it wouldn't have been enough to push an M car out, which is probably why they didnt. The 35IS is a fast car and is well up there with any of the M cars of the time.

Although they did soften the parts that could make the car quicker... like the DCT has a more sluggish map.

Apart from the 1M every M car up to that point had a bespoke M engine and BMW had already put that in the 35IS. The only other available was the S65.

On paper the Z4 is around the same weight as an M3 so you can do some quick maths and in numbers alone there wouldn't be any real difference. (in manual form) Possibly with a DCT it would be a few 10s quicker. Of course the experience would be completely different but the effort and expectation probably wouldn't have lived up and especially after the "failure" of the E85/86M in sales figures.

In classic BMW M style it would have been nice to get a bespoke M body kit, M interior, quads, LSD some bespoke M wheels. Essentially the 35IS is exactly the same in looks as any other m sport apart from the rear diffuser.

The Z Ms were always special M projects, essentially making a 'classic' sports car from the parts bin. Many of the complaints about the E85/86M like the crashy ride etc are all characteristics of a great drivers car, full feel from every part of the car. Its just not great to live with everyday which most reviewers jumped on. The weight of the E85/86 was also a positive with it being a good saving on the M3. On paper the M3 had 4 seats was about the same price so looked like better value to most buyers, it was a victim of a poor economic climate. The opinion on announcement also wasnt great reviews even commented on that it wasnt an appealing package even with the looks... :tumbleweed:

I think its probably one of the best looking modern BMWs without doubt. Anyway it has aged incredibly well and its about as close to a true driving experience as you will get in the modern car world.

You also have to remember that the economy wasnt really a great place when the E89 was released also and neither with the facelift with the E89 not really hitting the point with upgrading owners again it seemed to miss with sales figures. The platform wasnt really set for a classic M car, what would have been interesting is if BMW had gone down the AMG root and just made a stupid fast muscle car like the AMG variants. The AMG cars arent really amazing in the twisties but the sheer power makes up for it in most reviewers minds.

Saying that, what BMW did with the E89 is a strange one, it was meant to take on the Merc/Audi segment of luxury GTs yet both the comp offered rocket cars with an AMG or RS version but also a fully fledged diesel segment. Most TTs or SLK cars I see are diesels so they probably missed out there too as BMW made the best diesel engines at the time... a 35D would have been an interesting car for sure.

Will be interesting to see what the Z5 brings but I doubt it will be the car that the forum is calling out for. Will probably be more like an i8 drivetrain than a Z4M.

At the end of the day its all about perception and people get arsy about purist opinions. Myself included.

If you accept what the car is then it is a really great bit of kit. In a world where more and more cars share parts, engines and platforms the purist days of old are over.

User avatar
tomscott
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by tomscott » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:36 am

mr wilks wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:18 am
MACK wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 am I suppose the real question is all things being equal and there's a 35i manual and a E85M in front of you, you can only take one home as a keeper, which one would you choose?
Time will tell , , i bought the 35i with specific long distance euro roadtrips in mind that i didn't fancy with my M roadster , not that it couldn't cope but after many long weekends touring Uk with Mrs W just wanted a little more cabin comfort & cruiser capabilities + id had the ZMR almost a year & didn't want to add potentially 7-8000miles in 7 months to its 80k .
I always have one eye on the exit as soon as i buy any weekender & this time its next summer so only at that point will i know whether to twist or stick & what the next move will be :wink:
I think the E89 would make a great tourer which is the reason I fancy one. On the eurotrips time is usually spent 70% of the time on the motorway getting to where you need to be and 30% on the great driving roads.

My only reservation was the boot, with the roof down its a tiny space, possibly one decent suitcase? With mine and SWIMBOs gear my photography gear and the essential trip gear... I dont think it would all fit with the roof down. As there isnt any other space in the car apart from the footwell?

This years eurotrip the 911 was moderately full we traveled fairly lightly with two grip bags and two rucksacks and my photography gear. The trips I have done have been more 10 days to 2 weeks.

The nice thing about the 911 is that you can put the rear seats down and have a huge amount of space, the cayman the same with the hatchback style and the boxster has 2 boots which fits a surprising amount of gear.

How did you get on with it in comparison to the farily big boot in the M?

Online
User avatar
Nictrix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 5424
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm
Location: Paisley

Is there Z life after a ///M ?

Post by Nictrix » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:54 am

MACK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:43 pm Looks great, the "Lardy E89" point of view is an interesting one. Depending where you look there seems to be about about 80-90Kgs between an 35i manual and an E85M. However there's about 120kg's between an E85M and a E85 3.0i but no one calls the M lardy! :P
I don't understand this either, especially with the amount of E85 owners jumping ship into E89s. I wonder how many of these used to slate the E89?
This is the difference between the two.
The E89 is:
6 inches longer
half an inch wider
half an inch lower
Just a shame its heavier.
And as has been seen in pictures, the E89 doesn't jump out as being huge.
E89 2014 35i M Sport Black with Black leather :)

Post Reply