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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

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HyperGrade
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by HyperGrade » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:58 am

stevo///m3 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:05 pm I’m not that bothered that he has allegedly swindled the VAT man; all the others have too and a fair few besides those that have been named. I think the best outcome - for Lewis and the public at large - is that he pays what he owes (15% or 35% of the £3.3m, whatever it turns out to be...) and donates a big number to a charity. Some will see that as trying to cover up something he did “wrong”. Maybe better still he sues his advisers and donates the proceeds to charity. Anyway, I’m musing :D hope it all works out fine for all concerned!
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maxman wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:43 pm
Nanu wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:56 pm
maxman wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:08 am

That's his knighthood gone down the plug hole ,he's no better than a benefit cheat in that respect in claiming money that does not belong to him. :x
He is not claiming money that doesn't belong to him, he is keeping the money that does
According to the report on the BBC he didn't pay the vat that was due on a plane he bought in the IOM,the pathetic
bit is the amount owed would be small change to him.
What would be the outcome if everybody in the uk decided from tomorrow they would stop paying vat and income tax ,nobody likes paying tax but in a civilised society it's one of life's chores.

It's not a % of the £3.3m that he owes tax on. The £3.3m IS the tax he owes on the plane. So I believe his annual from Merc is approximately $40m (inc bonuses) before tax (assuming he's paying tax on that somewhere :) ) so I would say £3.3m is quite a chunk, rather than a pathetic amount - hence the swerve attempt.....which yes we would all try to avoid tax where possible and legally acceptable.

I guess peoples' problem is that the UK is his 'home' that gave him his start in life, our taxes paid a lot to get him to where he is and he's happy to drape our flag over his back....therefore he should pay what he is legally required to for the money he earns, or the products he purchases here - like jets.
People (rightly or wrongly) also pointed out that it's the British tax payers who paid for his brother who has CP, and when the NHS is already struggling with services, people who aren't contributing their fair share don't help. Corporation tax methods are obviously all making things 100x worse than £3.3m from 1 guy, but it all adds up.
If he has to buy a jet with his company, lease it to another company of his, register some entity in the Bahamas where a private jet company then leases it off him, and finally he pays them to use it (his own jet).....that many manoeuvres suggest that several people know that this is taking the piss.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Lewis fan - I was there for his first race in Oz 2007. I like the racer.... but struggle to like the man, especially when things aren't going his way!
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by pvr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:14 am

£3.3 million is 20% of the value of the plane and would be payable if he used the plane 100% private. He uses it for business, it is not the £3.3 he would owe but a fraction of that. It is about the 85/15 split that they are talking about - unfortunately the journalists don't understand that and prefer to report on the wrong facts.
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by HyperGrade » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:29 am

pvr wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:14 am £3.3 million is 20% of the value of the plane and would be payable if he used the plane 100% private. He uses it for business, it is not the £3.3 he would owe but a fraction of that. It is about the 85/15 split that they are talking about - unfortunately the journalists don't understand that and prefer to report on the wrong facts.
To some extent - but the professionals in this area have a different opinion.

"Under UK and EU legislation, if the jet was to be used for business purposes only, he would have been entitled to a VAT rebate. However the BBC's Panorama programme has seen documents which suggest the Mercedes star intended to make private flights about a third of the time.
On the basis of the transactions, Hamilton's advisers were able to claim a 100% VAT refund on the £3.3m he was obliged to pay at the point of importation.

But the leasing agreements suggest Hamilton was going to be using the plane 80 hours per month, with his company using it for 160 hours.

If private usage of the jet is being disguised as business usage of the jet, then what you essentially have is a tax avoidance scheme," says Rita De La Feria, professor of tax law at Leeds University.

You're using it for your own private interests, you're going on holidays, meeting friends. You're supposed to pay the tax on private consumption.

If this estimate had been used for the basis of the VAT refund, under UK and EU VAT rules, only two thirds could have been considered for a refund in relation to business use. **The artificiality of the structure raises questions about whether Hamilton should have received a refund at all.**"
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by Nictrix » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:35 am

Even if £3.3m is the amount owed and he earns £40m, percentage wise I am paying more tax than that on what I earn.
Its not even 10%. Can he not afford this?
Considering he probably doesn't pay any other tax on his earnings what is the problem.
Where did he buy the plane and why is the tax owed in the UK.
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Post by pvr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:59 am

He is doing what other companies are doing. Most Polish registered trucks are UK companies,, most ships are registered in Panama but are not from there. He lives in Monaco, but you can only be in the UK for 30 days a year or so? Perhaps he is more than that here and the domicile rule kicks in.
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by pvr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Nictrix wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:35 am Even if £3.3m is the amount owed and he earns £40m, percentage wise I am paying more tax than that on what I earn.
Its not even 10%. Can he not afford this?
£3.3 is only one VAT bill, not his overall income though. I have no idea how much he pays on income and other stuff.
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by Nictrix » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm

pvr wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:00 pm
Nictrix wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:35 am Even if £3.3m is the amount owed and he earns £40m, percentage wise I am paying more tax than that on what I earn.
Its not even 10%. Can he not afford this?
£3.3 is only one VAT bill, not his overall income though. I have no idea how much he pays on income and other stuff.
I think if you did people would be asking questions :lol:
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by jimmybell » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:38 pm

Age old debate really - i don't really class being tax efficient (paying what's legally demanded of you in your situation) as the same as tax avoidance (under-reporting, doing business in cash and not declaring etc), though. AFAIK he's a Monaco resident and probably pays tax there very legally, not sure what he owes here or why he would. I also imagine as someone has said - he doesn't do his finances himself, he's an F1 driver with a glam life, i imagine he's quite busy and can afford a FA and tax planner. If he bought a plane and owes VAT on it, he should fire his FA/tax planner - they should know better when he could buy it elsewhere and not pay it. If his VAT avoidance scheme was pants, sadly he owes the VAT and needs someone to write better finance/leasing contracts for him. He failed to play the system in this instance. oops.

Don't get angry at the people doing everything they can to maximize their earnings (legally) - get angry at the s**t system that allows it, the politicians and the public sector/hmrc employees who give us such an OTT complex unbalanced unfair tax system that will always inherently have huge flaws that allow this kind of split rich/poor taxation.

The debate always spirals in to the same end, happens once a month on pistonheads :D You either fall in to the camp of 'rich people can afford more so should pay more', or you're of the 'why tax success' camp. I imagine the majority of people in both camps are probably a stereotype.

Personally i can't wait to discover some new ways i can be tax efficient. As PVR said this is all really only acceptable (the leaks) because it's rich people being scrutinized. I can't imagine the general public would love a leak of their finances and international journo scrutiny of whether they've paid everything they owe.
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by mcbeee » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:10 pm

Not worries at all.... this is where you tell the accountants and the tax lawyer to "Deal with this."
Buying a plane and leasing it to another company is common around the world, my first father in-law had four planes leased and one not leased. The rentals to other people/entities covered the costs of ownership and the planes were always available for private use when needed. A nominal amount of "hiring cost " was paid to the other company but it just meant a little less in lease payment coming back. Some call it tax planning, others call it a tax dodge.
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by buzyg » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm

What a knowledgeable lot we are. One excellent thing to come out of this thread. When I buy my first private jet, I now know what to do, to avoid paying too much tax on it. :lol: :wink:
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Post by pvr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:20 pm

buzyg wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm What a knowledgeable lot we are. One excellent thing to come out of this thread. When I buy my first private jet, I now know what to do, to avoid paying too much tax on it. :lol: :wink:

You fail at the first hurdle - "my first private jet", implies ownership. You should say "when my business buys its first jet".

Rookie error :lol:
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Post by buzyg » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:24 pm

pvr wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:20 pm
buzyg wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm What a knowledgeable lot we are. One excellent thing to come out of this thread. When I buy my first private jet, I now know what to do, to avoid paying too much tax on it. :lol: :wink:

You fail at the first hurdle - "my first private jet", implies ownership. You should say "when my business buys its first jet".

Rookie error :lol:
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Post by HyperGrade » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:41 pm

pvr wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:20 pm
buzyg wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm What a knowledgeable lot we are. One excellent thing to come out of this thread. When I buy my first private jet, I now know what to do, to avoid paying too much tax on it. :lol: :wink:

You fail at the first hurdle - "my first private jet", implies ownership. You should say "when my business buys its first jet".

Rookie error :lol:
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Anyone else worried about Lewis?

Post by SeanConnor » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:17 pm

The funniest story I I remember was just before the Scottish independence vote. Professional scotsman Sean Connery was banging on about the SNP and what a good move giving the sasanachs (sp ?) the heave-ho was. They interviewed his brother on R4 and the interviewer asked him why if SC had such a strong opinion was he not in Scotland to promote them ? The answer was that he was already at his UK days limit and if he spent another one here he would have to pay income tax. FFS evidently is wasn't THAT important :thumbsdown:
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Post by Nictrix » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:42 pm

If I remember correctly years ago the Rolling Stones cancelled a gig at Murrayfield due to similar circumstances.
Something about if they played it the gig would have cost them money with the tax they would have to pay.
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