Anyone else worried about Lewis?

[sp3ctre]

Sars, is it just me taking some of those "I wouldn't do the same thing" statements with a pinch of salt?! Vettel for sure would have done the same!

[Smartbear]

I think the line is a bit blurred between a move within the rules & sporting behavior, Lewis didn't break any rules but could you call his actions sporting?
I don't blame him for trying to get nico tangled up, it was his only strategy left
Rob

[john-e89]

Thanks for pointing that out, I would also add that one of the things I do like about Hamilton, unfortunately there is a lot that I don't like, is that he's no cheat. Even on Sunday, backing Rosberg up into the chasing pack behind was well within the rules, it actually happens in every race. the leader keeps to a pace that is just fast enough to keep the lead. Because of fuel/tyres/power train management the days of the leader streaking off into the distance are gone.

There is a gulf of difference between having to keep to a set speed stratedgy for the tyres and fuel to get to the finish line as fast as that will allow, which is a normal race weekend in weekend out, compared to backing your team mate up progressively to 9 seconds a lap I think it was on the last few laps slower than you can potentially go. In a normal GP weekend how often do you hear the race engineer, and getting nowhere, the technical director calling the lead driver telling them to speed up? Paddy Lowe had to get involved, the team are having a cool off then deciding if they are going to punish Hamilton or not for backing Rosberg up to such an extent, does that happen every race?

As I've said it's a case of agree to disagree on wether people think Hamilton cheated or not, it's purely down to personal opinion so personally I won't comment on that anymore as I've said what I think.

That's the point you are missing, the rules state that the lead driver can control the pace, his strategy was totally within the rules and thus you cannot state that he cheated. He was not under investigation by the stewards for contravening the rules during the race and he is not being investigated afterwards by the FIA either.

Excellent debate here http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/11/29/h ... d-rosberg/

Yes I'm aware he didn't break any official rules.

I said dirty tricks and foul play. The only time I said cheated was when I said it's up to people to make up their own minds wether he cheated or not, meaning it as an overview, but I'm happy to substitute the word cheated, which I used once, for unsportsmanlike for e.g. I also said in a previous post that he mostly plays it fair on track, however, on Sunday I don't think he did, which is what we're talking about here. My reply to you was regarding backing up deliberately which most certainly doesnt happen every race, most races the lead driver will push to the limit of the tyres, fuel and stratedgy, or to maintain a gap that they have built up in the first stints, with them pushing harder if possible if a competitor then gets too close, including Hamilton. However on Sunday he drove deliberately very slowly to push Rosberg into following competitors which imo is dirty tactics which was my initial post, that is all.

As I keep saying, just my opinion, others have theirs and it's all good.

Over and out.

[Sae]

Quite odd reading comments regarding dirty tactics vs racing strategy, in the competitive world its ALL classed as winning strategy, its not as if he brake tested rosberg into running into the back of him and damaging his nose. No illegal maneouvre was committed.

The word cheating implies an unfair advantage such as brawns double diffuser or rebbulls exhaust blown diffuser, or blocking the track duringg final lap of quali, however backign up and bunching the pack is a driving tactic although an unuasual one. Was verstappens slipstream overtakes behind vettel etc on blue flags unsportsmanlike or cheating - id say definitely yes, the backmarker has to give way and in doing so gives way to car he is racing too... but we all thought that vestappen was making a smart move.

And also regarding comments on being a sore loser, id be interested to know how many folks that have commented have actually participated in sports (individual or team) at competitive amatuer or pro level? if youre not raging after losing youre just making up the numbers, and if youre just making up the numbers then youre not really a competitor, youre just doing social sport, which is no bad thing in itself, however you will never ever comprehend what losing means.

[sars]

Sars, is it just me taking some of those "I wouldn't do the same thing" statements with a pinch of salt?! Vettel for sure would have done the same!

Not at all, I can't help smiling when you hear ex racers like Nigel bloody Mansell moaning about oh we didn't do that kind of thing in my day, no it was worse.....

[john-e89]

And also regarding comments on being a sore loser, id be interested to know how many folks that have commented have actually participated in sports (individual or team) at competitive amatuer or pro level? if youre not raging after losing youre just making up the numbers, and if youre just making up the numbers then youre not really a competitor, youre just doing social sport, which is no bad thing in itself, however you will never ever comprehend what losing means.

Former Derbyshire county swimming champion at butterfly, 1 runner up spot in the same.

English nationals open men's butterfly competitor 4 yrs running. 3rd being highest finish.

12 years swimming competitively at AC level.

[Sae]

And also regarding comments on being a sore loser, id be interested to know how many folks that have commented have actually participated in sports (individual or team) at competitive amatuer or pro level? if youre not raging after losing youre just making up the numbers, and if youre just making up the numbers then youre not really a competitor, youre just doing social sport, which is no bad thing in itself, however you will never ever comprehend what losing means.

Former Derbyshire county swimming champion at butterfly, 1 runner up spot in the same.

English nationals open men's butterfly competitor 4 yrs running. 3rd being highest finish.

12 years swimming competitively at AC level.

Great effort
Any open water swimming?

Or anything that is one on one opponent based? Or group opponent based?

[Mr Tidy]

Not at all, I can't help smiling when you hear ex racers like Nigel bloody Mansell moaning about oh we didn't do that kind of thing in my day, no it was worse.....

Couldn't agree more - backing people up is pretty tame, after all if they thought they could go faster they always had the option to overtake (or try to)!

It is nothing like the Senna/Prost gravel trap trip or the Schumacher/Hill Armco fiasco in Australia, but both were allowed to stand as results.

At the end of the day the winner aims to win at the slowest possible pace to ensure the car survives - no point going flat-out all the time just to end up with a mechanical failure within sight of the finish line!

[john-e89]

And also regarding comments on being a sore loser, id be interested to know how many folks that have commented have actually participated in sports (individual or team) at competitive amatuer or pro level? if youre not raging after losing youre just making up the numbers, and if youre just making up the numbers then youre not really a competitor, youre just doing social sport, which is no bad thing in itself, however you will never ever comprehend what losing means.

Former Derbyshire county swimming champion at butterfly, 1 runner up spot in the same.

English nationals open men's butterfly competitor 4 yrs running. 3rd being highest finish.

12 years swimming competitively at AC level.

Great effort
Any open water swimming?

Or anything that is one on one opponent based? Or group opponent based?

Cheers sae.

The swimming was my highlight TBH but after 12 odd years hard training I burnt out. The English nationals were the pinnacle for me, I couldn't get any further because I'm only 5'6" tall and in swimming you simply cannot beat the 6+footers, you won't see any short Olympic swimmers, I got offered a place at Millfield to train but ultimately turned it down for this reason.

Not really any open water stuff, I did some distance training for a shot at the channel swim but got into cycling instead. Other than that nothing out of the ordinary.

The swimming was intense, early morning and then evening training 5 days a week with competitions on a Saturday, day off Sunday. It taught me a lot about competitiveness and discipline, but I'm naturally not a competitive person, I'm comfortable with losing as long as I've done my best. So thinking about it more maybe I'm being a bit hard on Hamilton, he might not be able to take losing like most people, I don't know, I haven't been at that level, yes I've won and come 2nd in plenty of swims but not at world championship level. So I don't know, maybe I shouldn't comment, I just think life is too short to be so intense, it's only sport, not life and death, but I'm not him so who knows how he really thinks.

I'll not be so judgemental next time and chill a bit more.

[Sae]

Former Derbyshire county swimming champion at butterfly, 1 runner up spot in the same.

English nationals open men's butterfly competitor 4 yrs running. 3rd being highest finish.

12 years swimming competitively at AC level.

Great effort
Any open water swimming?

Or anything that is one on one opponent based? Or group opponent based?

Cheers sae.

The swimming was my highlight TBH but after 12 odd years hard training I burnt out. The English nationals were the pinnacle for me, I couldn't get any further because I'm only 5'6" tall and in swimming you simply cannot beat the 6+footers, you won't see any short Olympic swimmers, I got offered a place at Millfield to train but ultimately turned it down for this reason.

Not really any open water stuff, I did some distance training for a shot at the channel swim but got into cycling instead. Other than that nothing out of the ordinary.

The swimming was intense, early morning and then evening training 5 days a week with competitions on a Saturday, day off Sunday. It taught me a lot about competitiveness and discipline, but I'm naturally not a competitive person, I'm comfortable with losing as long as I've done my best. So thinking about it more maybe I'm being a bit hard on Hamilton, he might not be able to take losing like most people, I don't know, I haven't been at that level, yes I've won and come 2nd in plenty of swims but not at world championship level. So I don't know, maybe I shouldn't comment, I just think life is too short to be so intense, it's only sport, not life and death, but I'm not him so who knows how he really thinks.

I'll not be so judgemental next time and chill a bit more.

I find the whole competition thing personally interesting, i always wonder if the journalists etc really understand it to any degree - especially when comments like sore loser / ruthlessness are bandied about.
Ive always done competitive sport from schools to county, uni and represented at junior national level. Im fortunate enough to do multiple sports to reasonable level, but I like them for their different competitive aspects:
- badminton singles - love the one on one element
- badminton doubles - intimate paired team element
- basketball, team and one on one competition element
- golf, you against the course element
- snooker/pool you against the opponent/table
- football 5/7s is probably the only game I do that I accept is purely social.
I would probably say I am a bad loser in all aspects of above competition when I lose, but naturally that only drives you to improve even at my late age.

However like yourself, I think that it is useful to understand your own nature and apply to life in general, when/who to be competitive and when to act as an individual or form a team, who or what to set up as the opponent or the goal. Im self employed so it really helps in that respect.

And for those that dont think they are competitive at all because they dont do sports, what about the xmas games such as monopoly and trivial persuits, kids or adults, show me a good loser at christmas time especially when a few mulled wines are thrown into the mix

[Mr Tidy]

Cheers sae.The swimming was my highlight TBH but after 12 odd years hard training I burnt out. The English nationals were the pinnacle for me, I couldn't get any further because I'm only 5'6" tall and in swimming you simply cannot beat the 6+footers, you won't see any short Olympic swimmers, I got offered a place at Millfield to train but ultimately turned it down for this reason. Not really any open water stuff, I did some distance training for a shot at the channel swim but got into cycling instead. Other than that nothing out of the ordinary.The swimming was intense, early morning and then evening training 5 days a week with competitions on a Saturday, day off Sunday. It taught me a lot about competitiveness and discipline, but I'm naturally not a competitive person, I'm comfortable with losing as long as I've done my best. So thinking about it more maybe I'm being a bit hard on Hamilton, he might not be able to take losing like most people, I don't know, I haven't been at that level, yes I've won and come 2nd in plenty of swims but not at world championship level. So I don't know, maybe I shouldn't comment, I just think life is too short to be so intense, it's only sport, not life and death, but I'm not him so who knows how he really thinks. I'll not be so judgemental next time and chill a bit more.

You did well though.

But backing up was Lewis' only hope, so in a competitive arena he surely had to try!

[MrPT]

Only just managed to catch the race, having been a way for a while.

I think speeding off into the distance, which Hamilton might have been able to do given his pace all weekend, would have been throwing the thing away. While there was still a chance of the championship (and it was legal) he was always going to do it, as any other top driver would do in his position. Mercedes almost certainly knew this, and had to at least pay lip service to the idea of "team first".

Congrats to Nico. Nice guy, clearly talented - not an unworthy champion, but he probably won't be looked back on the same way as Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton, Alonso etc.

[Mr Tidy]

Only just managed to catch the race, having been a way for a while.

I think speeding off into the distance, which Hamilton might have been able to do given his pace all weekend, would have been throwing the thing away. While there was still a chance of the championship (and it was legal) he was always going to do it, as any other top driver would do in his position. Mercedes almost certainly knew this, and had to at least pay lip service to the idea of "team first".

Congrats to Nico. Nice guy, clearly talented - not an unworthy champion, but he probably won't be looked back on the same way as Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton, Alonso etc.

Yes, congrats to Nico as he did what he had to do - will he win another? I doubt it somehow.

[Nanu]

I only ever watch the start of grand prixs now as the rest is just plain boring along with the commentators, no doubting Hamiltons talent but he does come across as a spoilt child and pretty unsportsman like at times, in fact the opposite to Button.

Really wish we could go back to the days of Senna, Prost and Mansell where to me it seemed more about the driving than what jewellery they wear, oh and no forgetting Murray, the best commentator F1 has ever had.

Tim.

Cant see Senna in the same position drive off into the distance and allow Prost to win the title. Lewis was only doing what any true racer would do and that was to win the race and the title if possible. It may have been more graceful to do that but being second is the first of the losers.

[ranski]

^this