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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by Chris_D » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 am

Ducklakeview wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:59 am
Chris_D wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:01 pm
pvr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:48 pm

I am on minimum wage as well and have pay slips to prove it. :lol:
Me too. oldest trick in the 'Company Owner/Director's' book.. :lol:
you should know this Mike or do we need to educate you? My 'consultant fee' is €200/hr if you would like to submit an application.....
I was being sarcastic Chris. No one manipulates thre system like me, or rather "my accountant works surprisingly hard for his money" πŸ€”

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We're all going to hell if we get bubbled tho. You can bet some sallow-faced twonk down at the treasury has sent a memo around advising of potential loopholes. B@stards. I'm never comin back to the UK! :lol:
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by Scooba_Steve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:11 am

With the new guidelines it seems to me that with no 10%+2 allowance then I might as well just pluck for the upper end of band A. So instead of 79 on the motorway there's no no incentive to not push 90.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by mj2k » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:34 am

Scooba_Steve wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:11 am With the new guidelines it seems to me that with no 10%+2 allowance then I might as well just pluck for the upper end of band A. So instead of 79 on the motorway there's no no incentive to not push 90.
:lol: I agree though, you might as well get your money's worth from it

The only place I've read about all this is car / watch forums, nothing seems 'mainstream', or I have just not noticed it
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by Ducklakeview » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:46 am

Another stealth tax...

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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by petach » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:58 am

mmm-five wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:08 pm
Ducklakeview wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:54 pmLol, it's in all of the rags. The ACPO guidelines up until 2015 are below, and it's not been updated as far as I can see, so unless there is an update pending?
ACPO doesn't exist anymore (nor do the guidelines).

It was replaced by the NPCC in 2015 after the Parker Review gave ACPO a drubbing (e.g. unaccountable, disregard for their own guidelines, lack of transparency, fraud, etc.).

Don't commit a 'crime' and you won't have to take the punishment - after all, none of our speedos under-read, so we can't really use the excuse that we didn't know we were driving over the limit :poke:

In defence of the above poster, most people choose which laws apply to them rigidly and those which they find socially acceptable to break just a little bit. Speeding is one of them. The law is explicit in respect of theft, burglary, rape, assault etc. There is no difference with road traffic offences. If you speed.....even just a tiny bit.....there is no excuse. If you are caught cough up and get on with it. I have done it 3 times over the years....and not by a huge margin at all. More fool me. I have no problem with speed cameras....hand held or static. Now, as to whether the police will come out in force to catch those doing .000001 mph over the limit? Don't bet on it. They are all under incredible financial strain and the income they might gain from enforcement is not going to touch it. The police are having to sell off part of their estate (i.e. close down police stations and sell them off to Burger King or MacDonalds etc) to reduce costs in the face of these cuts. Yep, like everyone else they are having to fight leaner and fitter....more bangs for less buck just like the NHS and local government. In fact....things are so bad that the Met Police (in the face of a decline of applicants for a detective role) is allowing PCSO/Specials or whatever they are called these days....to apply to be a detective directly. Probationers will be able to do the same as well.

I have had to knock on doors and ruin the lives (FOR EVER) of the people answering when I have had to impart the worst news (murder AND RTA's) I remember each with a clarity that it seems like only yesterday.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by -Tom- » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:23 am

petach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:58 am
mmm-five wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:08 pm
Ducklakeview wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:54 pmLol, it's in all of the rags. The ACPO guidelines up until 2015 are below, and it's not been updated as far as I can see, so unless there is an update pending?
ACPO doesn't exist anymore (nor do the guidelines).

It was replaced by the NPCC in 2015 after the Parker Review gave ACPO a drubbing (e.g. unaccountable, disregard for their own guidelines, lack of transparency, fraud, etc.).

Don't commit a 'crime' and you won't have to take the punishment - after all, none of our speedos under-read, so we can't really use the excuse that we didn't know we were driving over the limit :poke:

In defence of the above poster, most people choose which laws apply to them rigidly and those which they find socially acceptable to break just a little bit. Speeding is one of them. The law is explicit in respect of theft, burglary, rape, assault etc. There is no difference with road traffic offences. If you speed.....even just a tiny bit.....there is no excuse. If you are caught cough up and get on with it. I have done it 3 times over the years....and not by a huge margin at all. More fool me. I have no problem with speed cameras....hand held or static. Now, as to whether the police will come out in force to catch those doing .000001 mph over the limit? Don't bet on it. They are all under incredible financial strain and the income they might gain from enforcement is not going to touch it. The police are having to sell off part of their estate (i.e. close down police stations and sell them off to Burger King or MacDonalds etc) to reduce costs in the face of these cuts. Yep, like everyone else they are having to fight leaner and fitter....more bangs for less buck just like the NHS and local government. In fact....things are so bad that the Met Police (in the face of a decline of applicants for a detective role) is allowing PCSO/Specials or whatever they are called these days....to apply to be a detective directly. Probationers will be able to do the same as well.

I have had to knock on doors and ruin the lives (FOR EVER) of the people answering when I have had to impart the worst news (murder AND RTA's) I remember each with a clarity that it seems like only yesterday.
Fair points. But I can't accept 81 on a motorway as a risk; the punishment for it is so out of context. The long old argument I know, but if you are going reduce leeway and increase fines, then motorway speeds should be increased. Instead we are lowering them. totally bonkers. Modern cars almost idle at 70 :tumbleweed:
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by Ducklakeview » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:36 am

-Tom- wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:23 am
petach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:58 am
mmm-five wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:08 pm
ACPO doesn't exist anymore (nor do the guidelines).

It was replaced by the NPCC in 2015 after the Parker Review gave ACPO a drubbing (e.g. unaccountable, disregard for their own guidelines, lack of transparency, fraud, etc.).

Don't commit a 'crime' and you won't have to take the punishment - after all, none of our speedos under-read, so we can't really use the excuse that we didn't know we were driving over the limit :poke:

In defence of the above poster, most people choose which laws apply to them rigidly and those which they find socially acceptable to break just a little bit. Speeding is one of them. The law is explicit in respect of theft, burglary, rape, assault etc. There is no difference with road traffic offences. If you speed.....even just a tiny bit.....there is no excuse. If you are caught cough up and get on with it. I have done it 3 times over the years....and not by a huge margin at all. More fool me. I have no problem with speed cameras....hand held or static. Now, as to whether the police will come out in force to catch those doing .000001 mph over the limit? Don't bet on it. They are all under incredible financial strain and the income they might gain from enforcement is not going to touch it. The police are having to sell off part of their estate (i.e. close down police stations and sell them off to Burger King or MacDonalds etc) to reduce costs in the face of these cuts. Yep, like everyone else they are having to fight leaner and fitter....more bangs for less buck just like the NHS and local government. In fact....things are so bad that the Met Police (in the face of a decline of applicants for a detective role) is allowing PCSO/Specials or whatever they are called these days....to apply to be a detective directly. Probationers will be able to do the same as well.

I have had to knock on doors and ruin the lives (FOR EVER) of the people answering when I have had to impart the worst news (murder AND RTA's) I remember each with a clarity that it seems like only yesterday.
Fair points. But I can't accept 81 on a motorway as a risk; the punishment for it is so out of context. The long old argument I know, but if you are going reduce leeway and increase fines, then motorway speeds should be increased. Instead we are lowering them. totally bonkers. Modern cars almost idle at 70 :tumbleweed:
Yup, agree regarding people choosing which laws to break, however as I said, I really CAN see PCSO's and the like moved away from "other" traffic duties, and sent out with their newly acquired laser guns..

Also, again as stated, why not increase the speed limit on motorways, which are already the safest roads we have, accounting for the lowest proportion of accidents and injuries, to 80 or 90, and rigidly enforce THAT limit. At the end of the day, people who are comfortable doing 50, 60 or 70 all day won't suddenly increase to 90, BUT those that like to make "good progress" when appropriate, will be able to do so and improve the traffic flow behind them.

Just my thoughts, oh and yes, in my quest for a new (to me) X5 40d, I believe that at 100mph in 8th, it's doing something like 2,200 rpm, equating to about 1,500 rpm at 70, basically only twice it's idling speed..

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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by petach » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm

"But I can't accept 81 on a motorway as a risk"

Therein is the problem. Most people (apart from thieving or perverted scum) think that theft is bad, burglary is bad, rape is bad. There is no such thing as a bit of theft, or a bit of burglary or a bit of rape. The law; including traffic law is absolute, but it chafes against our own ideas of what is ridiculous in law, against our perception of how good we are as a driver. In that case, we are happy to push at the boundary with a sticky plaster over our conscience. If everyone acted as though some laws were not applicable to them we would obviously have anarchy.

I think motoring laws are an interesting philosophical and psychological conundrum revolving around how we feel about our cars and our personal space in them. Everyone is a great driver.

Funny enough, after I wrote my original post I nipped out in the Z. On a residential street, there was a Honda Civic (trilby and blanket on parcel shelf) driven by a werthers sucking lady of a certain age. She was doing spot on 30 in a 30 limit. Hanging almost off her bumper was a Honda CRV determined to push her speed upwards or looking for room to overtake. In the end, the Civic turned off and the CRV accelerated to ooooh about 33mph! So, what was that all about? The CRV tosser thought 30 didn't apply to him and that he should be able to proceed at a little over the limit. Rank and utter driving without due care because the person in front stuck to the limit. Is the law causing the danger by frustrating drivers who want to "push on"? or is it the driver him or her self.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It will be interesting to see what will come to pass when these new tariffs are brought in. Will there actually be more accidents if more people stick rigidly to the limit and those who want to "push on" or "make progress" hang within a werthers breath trying to pass at a speed that THEY think is reasonable for them?
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by original guvnor » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:00 pm

Most of the EU has a 130km/h limit on motorways. Funny that we have been so enthusiastic adopting other EU-wide directives/legislation etc but choose not to adopt that one.

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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by pvr » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:21 pm

... including increasing the speed limits as they have done in NL.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by -Tom- » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:26 pm

petach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm "But I can't accept 81 on a motorway as a risk"

Therein is the problem. Most people (apart from thieving or perverted scum) think that theft is bad, burglary is bad, rape is bad. There is no such thing as a bit of theft, or a bit of burglary or a bit of rape. The law; including traffic law is absolute, but it chafes against our own ideas of what is ridiculous in law, against our perception of how good we are as a driver. In that case, we are happy to push at the boundary with a sticky plaster over our conscience. If everyone acted as though some laws were not applicable to them we would obviously have anarchy.

I think motoring laws are an interesting philosophical and psychological conundrum revolving around how we feel about our cars and our personal space in them. Everyone is a great driver.

Funny enough, after I wrote my original post I nipped out in the Z. On a residential street, there was a Honda Civic (trilby and blanket on parcel shelf) driven by a werthers sucking lady of a certain age. She was doing spot on 30 in a 30 limit. Hanging almost off her bumper was a Honda CRV determined to push her speed upwards or looking for room to overtake. In the end, the Civic turned off and the CRV accelerated to ooooh about 33mph! So, what was that all about? The CRV tosser thought 30 didn't apply to him and that he should be able to proceed at a little over the limit. Rank and utter driving without due care because the person in front stuck to the limit. Is the law causing the danger by frustrating drivers who want to "push on"? or is it the driver him or her self.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It will be interesting to see what will come to pass when these new tariffs are brought in. Will there actually be more accidents if more people stick rigidly to the limit and those who want to "push on" or "make progress" hang within a werthers breath trying to pass at a speed that THEY think is reasonable for them?

Sorry but no - don't compare me in the same bracket as someone choosing to break the law by raping someone (wtf is that kind of comparison ! Ha ha wow), because I say I see no risk in me doing 81 over 70 in a car that's way more advanced at stopping than I can even compute. Rape = doing 81 in a 70. Yeppppppp just the same philosophy hey. Wow.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by petach » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:17 pm

-Tom- wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:26 pm
petach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm "But I can't accept 81 on a motorway as a risk"

Therein is the problem. Most people (apart from thieving or perverted scum) think that theft is bad, burglary is bad, rape is bad. There is no such thing as a bit of theft, or a bit of burglary or a bit of rape. The law; including traffic law is absolute, but it chafes against our own ideas of what is ridiculous in law, against our perception of how good we are as a driver. In that case, we are happy to push at the boundary with a sticky plaster over our conscience. If everyone acted as though some laws were not applicable to them we would obviously have anarchy.

I think motoring laws are an interesting philosophical and psychological conundrum revolving around how we feel about our cars and our personal space in them. Everyone is a great driver.

Funny enough, after I wrote my original post I nipped out in the Z. On a residential street, there was a Honda Civic (trilby and blanket on parcel shelf) driven by a werthers sucking lady of a certain age. She was doing spot on 30 in a 30 limit. Hanging almost off her bumper was a Honda CRV determined to push her speed upwards or looking for room to overtake. In the end, the Civic turned off and the CRV accelerated to ooooh about 33mph! So, what was that all about? The CRV tosser thought 30 didn't apply to him and that he should be able to proceed at a little over the limit. Rank and utter driving without due care because the person in front stuck to the limit. Is the law causing the danger by frustrating drivers who want to "push on"? or is it the driver him or her self.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It will be interesting to see what will come to pass when these new tariffs are brought in. Will there actually be more accidents if more people stick rigidly to the limit and those who want to "push on" or "make progress" hang within a werthers breath trying to pass at a speed that THEY think is reasonable for them?

Sorry but no - don't compare me in the same bracket as someone choosing to break the law by raping someone (wtf is that kind of comparison ! Ha ha wow), because I say I see no risk in me doing 81 over 70 in a car that's way more advanced at stopping than I can even compute. Rape = doing 81 in a 70. Yeppppppp just the same philosophy hey. Wow.
I think you misread my post. I said "The law; including traffic law is absolute" I made a distinction. The reason I made that distinction is because a lot of people think that traffic law is something that is not mandatory, that it is flexible depending on your own need at a particular moment. Traffic law is passed by the same people that pass other laws on the statute books....people are careless about it. Laws are not passed willy nilly. Traffic law in respect of speed is made in consultation and based on science and statistics. "I'd like to do 81mph on a motorway, but I am not allowed to which is absurd" Of course I am not comparing you with a thief or rapist. And, that is why I called it an interesting philosophical conundrum in that people who would not consider, even remotely, committing a serious crime are happy to commit other perceived lesser and more socially acceptable offences which could actually have an even worse effect on someone's life. So, there is no risk in doing 81 instead of 70? Your car is way more advanced at stopping. But, are you capable of putting that in motion quickly? How quick are your reactions? How much more distance would you cover at 81 instead of 70? before your brain even thinks of moving your braking foot. All these things are thought out to try to reduce road casualties. Not everyone on the road in a fast car....or any car.....is a 20year old with lightning reflexes. There are all sorts of capabilities and we have all seen people where we have thought "wtf, why has he or she got a driving license"? The law of averages comes into play and everyone has to abide by the laws laid down to take account of the lowest common denominator. You may be a great driver, but you may be surrounded by idiots. You need to be protected from them, and yes, the idiots need to be protected from themselves

I am sorry that you think I was comparing you with a thief or rapist.....nothing of the sort, but my point still stands. It might be helpful if you read the post again.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by petach » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:27 pm

original guvnor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:00 pm Most of the EU has a 130km/h limit on motorways. Funny that we have been so enthusiastic adopting other EU-wide directives/legislation etc but choose not to adopt that one.
The UK (at last count) had 31 deaths per 1 million population. All other European countries had higher death rates. Most were 40-59 deaths per 1 million and some over 80 per 1 million. People may say there are lies, damned lies and statistics. But what else is there to prove a point?
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by pvr » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:56 pm

Netherlands has lower rates by the way and more traffic and a higher speed limit. There are other facts in place there, i.e. The driving test standards are a lot, lot higher than in the UK.
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New speeding rules next week, don't forget....

Post by original guvnor » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:16 am

petach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:27 pm
original guvnor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:00 pm Most of the EU has a 130km/h limit on motorways. Funny that we have been so enthusiastic adopting other EU-wide directives/legislation etc but choose not to adopt that one.
The UK (at last count) had 31 deaths per 1 million population. All other European countries had higher death rates. Most were 40-59 deaths per 1 million and some over 80 per 1 million. People may say there are lies, damned lies and statistics. But what else is there to prove a point?
But are you looking at motorway casualty rates or all roads? I'm talking about motorway speed limits. If we set all road speed limits to 20mph we'll have the safest roads in the world but at what cost to our society as a whole? Yes death and serious injury will be very low but so will our productivity too. The point being that road safety is not the only consideration to take into account when setting speed limits. And we have a productivity issue compared to our EU rivals.

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