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2040

Discuss anything non Z4 related here
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TitanTim
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Post by TitanTim » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:21 pm

I don't care I'll be using a mobility scooter by then :cry:

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jabber
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Post by jabber » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:53 pm

Hopefully I will be dead by then unless someone invents a way of making me young again
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Post by cj10jeeper » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:55 pm

Smartbear wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:02 am
enzed4 wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:54 am Road User Charges (RUC) are used here for all diesel vehicles, you pre-pay for the amount of mileage you want (e.g. $xxx for 10,000km), so basically, user-pays. If you do high mileage, you pay more (as the logic is supposed to be that you're causing more damage to the roads and the environment, but since the owners of large commercial vehicles pay the same RUC but do far more damage, I'm not sure how that works, TBH).
I suppose that idea could be used for taxing electric vehicle use.
How do they check how many miles you do?
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Simple tech will either start on main roads, busy, specific roads, times, etc. and use ANPR to charge for use and in the future every car will be 'connected' so easy to see time, distance, route, etc. travelled and charge. Also pretty easy to force cars to carry tags like for M6T to track
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Post by buzyg » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

Neil_87 wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:46 am
Dav the wheel nut wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:41 am So this appears to be a ban on the production of new petrol and diesel cars in which case it could take a few years to completely clear the roads of all those vehicles. On the bright side petrol prices would come down :lol:

Perhaps then we would be able to keep our petrol cars forever :D
The plan is to have them off the roads by 2050. So I need to sell the Zed before I'm 90. :lol:
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Post by philip27 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:04 pm

All this news has done has increased my desire to get myself into a Z4M at some point in the not to distant future.

I would like to see the continuation of refining the petrol engine. I think it's amazing what is being achieved with some of the modern engines in terms of performance and efficiency.

Personally I am still not sold on all electric cars whilst the advancement over the last few years is impressive I still feel they have a long way to go to be suitable for all. The need to recharge quickly and safely I still see as being a big hurdle to overcome.
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2040

Post by LordOxygen » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:46 pm

The IFS, back in 2012 recommended a road pricing scheme to tax all vehicles regardless of power source. ANPR makes this easy(ish) to implement. Pay more to travel in peak times on congested routes and pay less to travel off peak in rural areas. The sooner EVs are forced to pay tax the better, the current offerings are far from green considering the components that go into making / disposing of the batteries and the power generation source required to charge them.

As soon as EVs have a range of 400 miles and can charge in 10 to 15 minutes (a company in Israel has developed a Solid State battery that can do this, so the tech exists, albeit too expensive right now) I will happily use one for commuting up and down the M40. I couldn't care what the power source is for that. Just the small matter of generating and distributing the power needed to charge all these cars overnight and during the day. How are motorists who live in flats, or have on road parking going to be catered for? Charging points replacing parking meters?

I read it takes around £12 / 85kWh to charge a Tesla that is about the same power that my house uses in a week, I'd charge twice a week for my commute, the grid would collapse under the demand if we're all doing that.

The infrastructure required to make this all viable by 2040 is huge.

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Post by Mr Tidy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:26 am

LordOxygen wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:46 pmThe infrastructure required to make this all viable by 2040 is huge.
And probably won't happen in time. :rofl: (As usual).
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Post by slick » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:48 am

Dont panic.........the lady is for turning :lol:
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Post by Taz » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:02 am

I wonder what the car manufactures think, what if they all turned round and said they ain't going to produces electric cars by 2040

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Post by Nictrix » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:28 am

I have been thinking about motorbikes. Theres not a lot of choice for an electric bike.
For electric cars to be useful they need to be able to go hundreds of miles on one charge, be able to be charged quickly, just like if you are filling a fuel tank on a long journey and not need charged for weeks on end if not used.
Its already been said though, for the amount of cars out on the streets with no driveway or garage there will be extension cables running everywhere to charge cars at peoples homes unless there are hundreds of charging points put in place which will cost the country billions of pounds.
I can see there being a return to basics with the tech in the cars as you will not want to use up valuable battery power by using electric windows, electric seats, seat heating etc
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Post by Taz » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:33 am

Nictrix wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:28 am for the amount of cars out on the streets with no driveway or garage there will be extension cables running everywhere to charge cars at peoples homes
not even thought about that

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Post by Nictrix » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:43 am

Taz wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:33 am
Nictrix wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:28 am for the amount of cars out on the streets with no driveway or garage there will be extension cables running everywhere to charge cars at peoples homes
not even thought about that
And then what is to stop your neighbour using your extension lead to charge his own car.
This will be another expense, having to buy something to lock the power cable to your car while its charging so the neds cant unplug it.
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Post by Nictrix » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:36 pm

LordOxygen wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:46 pm
I read it takes around £12 / 85kWh to charge a Tesla that is about the same power that my house uses in a week, I'd charge twice a week for my commute, the grid would collapse under the demand if we're all doing that.
If this is correct and the figures for distance on one charge with the 85kw model is also correct I could commute for almost 3 weeks on one charge.
At the moment I am probably about £40 for the same usage.
But will one charge last for 3 weeks or is 265 miles on one charge only attainable if doing it in one journey?

If you are charging twice a week does that mean that you are commuting over 500 miles a week therefor costing you £24 in a Tesla.
What does that cost you in the car you have now? Its got to be around double.
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2040

Post by LordOxygen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:00 pm

Nictrix wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:36 pm
LordOxygen wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:46 pm
I read it takes around £12 / 85kWh to charge a Tesla that is about the same power that my house uses in a week, I'd charge twice a week for my commute, the grid would collapse under the demand if we're all doing that.
If this is correct and the figures for distance on one charge with the 85kw model is also correct I could commute for almost 3 weeks on one charge.
At the moment I am probably about £40 for the same usage.
But will one charge last for 3 weeks or is 265 miles on one charge only attainable if doing it in one journey?

If you are charging twice a week does that mean that you are commuting over 500 miles a week therefor costing you £24 in a Tesla.
What does that cost you in the car you have now? Its got to be around double.
I thought it was common knowledge that "filling the tank" on an EV is significantly cheaper than conventional car. Of course you need to build that into the cost of leasing or buying the thing in the first place, savings don't exist if you compare with used mainstream cars (which I buy). Costs aside, I don't want a daily driver with a short range (current car does 600+miles on a tank) I don't want a car off the road for 9 hours at a time while it's charging at home, I don't like lithium iron batteries and I don't like the current lack of infrastructure to charge cars away from home. If that works for you with much lower milage then get a Tesla, they're about £50K Yhttp://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/tesla/model-s. a Nissan Leaf is about half that price new but with a 100ish mile range depending the battery capacity to decide to lease.

As I said in my post above when EVs can cover 400+ miles and charge a solid state battery in under 15 minutes I'll consider one, that's about 10 yrs away according to BMW by which time they should be the price of a regular family car.

The bigger issue is the lack of infrastructure to generate and distribute the power needed to charge millions of cars everyday. It can't be done with the grid as it stands.

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Post by mr wilks » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:00 pm

Best point i heard on radio this week , how do they plan to power the trucks that service the country's needs ?
Electric wouldn't get them very far & how else would deliveries be made ? Canal barge perhaps :D
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