Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

"M" Specific discussion
Post Reply
User avatar
nfbr
Member
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: Irlam, Manchester
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by nfbr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:58 am

Yep, Just re-read it :)

The pedal feel will get progressively better as the pads bed in.
We used pagid OEM pads on the M3 that we developed the kit on and they were actually relatively impressive for a stock compound.

User avatar
MrPT
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: Bucks/Oxon

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by MrPT » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:46 am

nfbr wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:58 am Yep, Just re-read it :)

The pedal feel will get progressively better as the pads bed in.
We used pagid OEM pads on the M3 that we developed the kit on and they were actually relatively impressive for a stock compound.
It was just to try and get the same µ as the rears so as to not upset the balance for now, but yeah, they seem pretty good for the money.

It is really hard to tell how much difference the pads have made when the calipers themselves have also changed. I wanted to eliminate some of the over-servoed feel of the stock setup and they definitely do that. I'm hoping that some of the initial bite at the top of the pedal doesn't come back too much as the pads bed in, because I like how they feel at the moment!

Long-term plan is to switch to rear multi-pots as well, potentially hot-swapping the pads for track use. At the moment this feels like a good setup for "enthusiastic" road usage.

One thing I forgot to do was weigh the calipers. They are much lighter than stock - do you have any idea of the weight saving? It's all unsprung mass so should be a nice side benefit of the upgrade.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

User avatar
nfbr
Member
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: Irlam, Manchester
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by nfbr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:27 am

I'll check with Mike! I know he did some weight checks when we were doing the development work.
I'm not too sure if he'll still have the photos of the parts on the scales or not, but it would be interesting to see :)

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 10973
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by Beedub » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:04 pm

really great thread!!
www.topwrapz.com - Multi Award Winning - Detailing | Vinyl Wrap | Paint Protection Film Specialists |

User avatar
hopz121
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Guildford Surrey

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by hopz121 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:08 pm

Maybe worth sticking a thread up on M3cutters nfbr should be able to sell plenty of those there :thumbsup:
2004 BMW E46 M3 Coupe - Manual - Silver Grey
2017 BMW F31 318d M-Sport - Auto - Glacier Silver
2007 Porsche Cayman 2.7 - Manual - Arctic Silver
2003 Renault Clio 172 Cup - Blue
2003 BMW E85 Z4 3.0i - Gone
2008 BMW E90 330i SE - Gone

User avatar
nfbr
Member
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: Irlam, Manchester
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by nfbr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm

Mike from Vagbremtechnic already has an active thread on M3 Cutters and Bimmerpost I believe!

User avatar
hopz121
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Guildford Surrey

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by hopz121 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:16 pm

nfbr wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm Mike from Vagbremtechnic already has an active thread on M3 Cutters and Bimmerpost I believe!
Oh ok not come across it yet on cutters, but I may have missed it
2004 BMW E46 M3 Coupe - Manual - Silver Grey
2017 BMW F31 318d M-Sport - Auto - Glacier Silver
2007 Porsche Cayman 2.7 - Manual - Arctic Silver
2003 Renault Clio 172 Cup - Blue
2003 BMW E85 Z4 3.0i - Gone
2008 BMW E90 330i SE - Gone

User avatar
nfbr
Member
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: Irlam, Manchester
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by nfbr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm

Here we go: http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=148933
The thread wasn't so popular on M3 Cutters though with the looks of things.

Seems the Taiwanese brake kits are favoured on there.

User avatar
hopz121
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Guildford Surrey

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by hopz121 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:27 pm

nfbr wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm Here we go: http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=148933
The thread wasn't so popular on M3 Cutters though with the looks of things.

Seems the Taiwanese brake kits are favoured on there.
Thanks for the link ill check it out.

Will you be doing a group buy on this kit one day?
2004 BMW E46 M3 Coupe - Manual - Silver Grey
2017 BMW F31 318d M-Sport - Auto - Glacier Silver
2007 Porsche Cayman 2.7 - Manual - Arctic Silver
2003 Renault Clio 172 Cup - Blue
2003 BMW E85 Z4 3.0i - Gone
2008 BMW E90 330i SE - Gone

User avatar
nfbr
Member
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: Irlam, Manchester
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by nfbr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:28 pm

I would very much doubt it. It's not something that makes us or vagbremtechnic enough money to be offering any kind of discounting.

User avatar
MrPT
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: Bucks/Oxon

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by MrPT » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:31 am

hopz121 wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:27 pm
nfbr wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm Here we go: http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=148933
The thread wasn't so popular on M3 Cutters though with the looks of things.

Seems the Taiwanese brake kits are favoured on there.
Thanks for the link ill check it out.

Will you be doing a group buy on this kit one day?
I asked the same thing and got a similar response from VBT. Thing is, it's already a sub-£800 upgrade if you don't need new discs and are competent with a rattle can, which is less than half the price of a "proper" front BBK and 1/4 the price of Brembo's own 6-pot upgrade. The calipers aren't that common on eBay but Astonmartinbits.com (for example) usually have a few in stock in various conditions.

The other affordable alternative is the Performance BMW 6-pot, but you're at looking a big reduction in piston area (14%) and they aren't as cheap as they used to be. The popular Porsche Boxster S / 996 option doesn't work so well for us because the Z4M has the CSL's 46mm rear piston. If you fit front and rear Porsche Brembos it's a significant loss of clamping force (20% less piston area per corner), and if you fit just the rear with the PBMW front caliper (as some M3 users have done), it's going to send the brake bias rearwards and you're then into the world of different front/rear pads and bias valves. On the E46 M3 the Porsche upgrade works fine because the rear piston is 42mm, which means you can upgrade from standard to CSL front rotors to even things out.

Now I'm probably getting into a whole bunch of theoretical crap that I'll never have the balls or skills to explore on track, but I like the idea that this VBT kit is performance-oriented and a bit of thought has gone into the caliper selection.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

User avatar
Vanne
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Location: Dubai
Contact:

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by Vanne » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:16 am

MrPT wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:31 am
I asked the same thing and got a similar response from VBT. Thing is, it's already a sub-£800 upgrade if you don't need new discs and are competent with a rattle can, which is less than half the price of a "proper" front BBK and 1/4 the price of Brembo's own 6-pot upgrade. The calipers aren't that common on eBay but Astonmartinbits.com (for example) usually have a few in stock in various conditions.

The other affordable alternative is the Performance BMW 6-pot, but you're at looking a big reduction in piston area (14%) and they aren't as cheap as they used to be. The popular Porsche Boxster S / 996 option doesn't work so well for us because the Z4M has the CSL's 46mm rear piston. If you fit front and rear Porsche Brembos it's a significant loss of clamping force (20% less piston area per corner), and if you fit just the rear with the PBMW front caliper (as some M3 users have done), it's going to send the brake bias rearwards and you're then into the world of different front/rear pads and bias valves. On the E46 M3 the Porsche upgrade works fine because the rear piston is 42mm, which means you can upgrade from standard to CSL front rotors to even things out.

Now I'm probably getting into a whole bunch of theoretical crap that I'll never have the balls or skills to explore on track, but I like the idea that this VBT kit is performance-oriented and a bit of thought has gone into the caliper selection.
Lol, this is probably the best response I've read in regards to BBK's for our cars. Everything in less than 300 words. Great info just right here.

:thumbsup:
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by Severn Tuning

Image

User avatar
MrPT
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: Bucks/Oxon

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by MrPT » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:17 am

Vanne wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:16 am
Lol, this is probably the best response I've read in regards to BBK's for our cars. Everything in less than 300 words. Great info just right here.

:thumbsup:
Hah, cheers. Close, but no cigar though - PBMW front caliper with 996 rears will send the brake bias forwards on the Z4M/CSL. Not by a huge amount (plus the stock setup is quite aggressive), so this configuration will probably leave you in an ok place, balance-wise.

What has really surprised me, having trawled through all this brake info, is just how substantial the stock brakes are. Additional cooling (like exdos has rigged up) and uprated pads are clearly a great way to go, albeit one that doesn't tick the box aesthetically or reduce unsprung mass.

When are we going to see pics of your new brakes, btw? :fuelfire:
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

D4dawg

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by D4dawg » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:34 am

Sounds good
But as I don't track nor intend to track mine
It's happy to rip my face off at mo haha

Oe brakes are great as are
Just look crap

User avatar
MrPT
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: Bucks/Oxon

VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

Post by MrPT » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:00 pm

D4dawg wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:34 am Sounds good
But as I don't track nor intend to track mine
It's happy to rip my face off at mo haha

Oe brakes are great as are
Just look crap
You'll be fine. Your brakes are cleaner than most people's windscreens. :D

I think a lot of people (myself included) like to be able to really stand on the brakes when out for a drive, and it's probably only in those kinds of situations (maybe on a frosty winter's morning!) that you'd find out that your rear brakes are a little keen and suddenly you're balls deep in the wrong kind of bush.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

Post Reply