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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by FD3S » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Beedub wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm
FD3S wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:18 pm Nice to know that with some 17000 mods on our beautiful cars, you can save 85.000 and avoid buying a P car.. :D

looks kinda painful when you put it like that, as lets be honest their amount of changes thats made to the z4m to get it to compete with the big boys, their isn't much bmw left...... :?
Let me put it another way. If you are woman around 35-40 and you do a boob and an ass job, does that make you less woman or less attractive from other women?
You have one of the best looking woman my friend, just "a little bit" tuned. On the heart (s54) and on the chassis is still the same woman :D

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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:01 pm

lol!!
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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Babw » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:57 am

2 years ago (a few weeks before I decided to buy make an impulse Z4M purchase) I did about 1000 miles in a GT4 from West Wales to South of France. Best aspects were how it was quite comfortable and happy to be hustled along at normal speeds with an amateur driver like myself then I saw a professional driver do a 2.19 at Silverstone in a bone stock GT4! That's seriously fast, he only managed a couple seconds faster in a 675LT.

I put a deposit down with Porsche Cardiff for an apparent second batch or an RS version which never materialised. This is the most annoying thing about buying Porsche GT cars, the flippers and only a tiny proportion of deposits actually get a car. No one really knows how they choose unlike say Ferrari who have some unwritten rules.

As a road car the Z4M is great fun but as it doesn't have any real racing pedigree behind it's development, the geometry and balance are more fun than performance. The best aspects are that when at speed it's fun in that fact that it feels on the edge of control. The Porsche on the other hand has upper limits which inspire confidence in the driver which when you start throwing it around circuits really help to go quickly.

I think a very good option if you want to upgrade a track ready Z4M but don't want to pay Porsche premiums is an Exige V6. Considering a polybushed Z4M with coilovers isn't exactly going to be a plush daily driver the relatively bare interior of a Lotus is hardly going to be a big downgrade. There are 400 - 500hp upgrade options for the V6 now with proven track reliability.

Z4M with track mods - £30k
Exige V6 - £40k
Porsche - £85k?

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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm

Babw wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:57 am 2 years ago (a few weeks before I decided to buy make an impulse Z4M purchase) I did about 1000 miles in a GT4 from West Wales to South of France. Best aspects were how it was quite comfortable and happy to be hustled along at normal speeds with an amateur driver like myself then I saw a professional driver do a 2.19 at Silverstone in a bone stock GT4! That's seriously fast, he only managed a couple seconds faster in a 675LT.

I put a deposit down with Porsche Cardiff for an apparent second batch or an RS version which never materialised. This is the most annoying thing about buying Porsche GT cars, the flippers and only a tiny proportion of deposits actually get a car. No one really knows how they choose unlike say Ferrari who have some unwritten rules.

As a road car the Z4M is great fun but as it doesn't have any real racing pedigree behind it's development, the geometry and balance are more fun than performance. The best aspects are that when at speed it's fun in that fact that it feels on the edge of control. The Porsche on the other hand has upper limits which inspire confidence in the driver which when you start throwing it around circuits really help to go quickly.

I think a very good option if you want to upgrade a track ready Z4M but don't want to pay Porsche premiums is an Exige V6. Considering a polybushed Z4M with coilovers isn't exactly going to be a plush daily driver the relatively bare interior of a Lotus is hardly going to be a big downgrade. There are 400 - 500hp upgrade options for the V6 now with proven track reliability.

Z4M with track mods - £30k
Exige V6 - £40k
Porsche - £85k?

agree... i reckon you could build and buy one with the 30k budget but would need to be a cheap car to complete the different and needed level of changes to compete at this level.. i love the exige and would love yo try one, especially with the power options that you mention. couldnt quite believe how slow the gt4 was / is..... no where near enough power for a GT product, i think 425 would have been the sweet spot! The engine choice and gearing feels totally wrong, and not just by alittle bit given the price point !! That needs to be remembered.
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Post by TomK » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:27 pm

Beedub wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pmcouldnt quite believe how slow the gt4 was / is..... no where near enough power for a GT product, i think 425 would have been the sweet spot! The engine choice and gearing feels totally wrong, and not just by alittle bit given the price point !! That needs to be remembered.
Agree with that, I've had a couple of run in's with gt4's on track. In a straight line the GT4 was no faster than my car, my laptime's were quite a bit faster but that's kind of irrelevant, different drivers etc. Ultimately I'm sure the GT4 would be the quicker car all things being equal, but there's not a lot in it. In a straight line I would have expected a 2016 Porsche GT product to be a fair bit quicker.
The point brought up earlier in the thread is an important one, they are simply too loud for track use in the UK (louder than a GT3) which is ridiculous being as it as it is marketed as a track car (also personally from the outside I found the sound of them quite unpleasant). The chap at goodwood I spoke to said there's a fair few unhappy customers on their forums regarding this, he was the only one black flagged for noise a couple of times whilst we were there on a bloody TVR day :o
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finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:33 pm

TomK wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:27 pm
Beedub wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pmcouldnt quite believe how slow the gt4 was / is..... no where near enough power for a GT product, i think 425 would have been the sweet spot! The engine choice and gearing feels totally wrong, and not just by alittle bit given the price point !! That needs to be remembered.
Agree with that, I've had a couple of run in's with gt4's on track. In a straight line the GT4 was no faster than my car, my laptime's were quite a bit faster but that's kind of irrelevant, different drivers etc. Ultimately I'm sure the GT4 would be the quicker car all things being equal, but there's not a lot in it. In a straight line I would have expected a 2016 Porsche GT product to be a fair bit quicker.
The point brought up earlier in the thread is an important one, they are simply too loud for track use in the UK (louder than a GT3) which is ridiculous being as it as it is marketed as a track car (also personally from the outside I found the sound of them quite unpleasant). The chap at goodwood I spoke to said there's a fair few unhappy customers on their forums regarding this, he was the only one black flagged for noise a couple of times whilst we were there on a bloody TVR day :o

its very loud no doubt as i stated in my first post , very surprised by how loud, i liked the sound however, really didn't like the rev matching feature, its the first I've ever used and it just didn't feel right, Back to the power output that i think needs clearing up, no way am i saying that 380 isn't alot of HP, just in this car, with that gearing , and its weight it just doesn't feel fast enough given the price point...... As you rightly say i really cant see one of these running away from a z4m on the straights, its advantage comes from the braking and cornering and if you've got this properly sorted on your z4 you'll have a great battle with one of these! Driving the gt4 was a total pleasure and real eye opener, if anyone has some time, please go to your local Porsche centre in your Z4 and try one of these!! id love to hear your findings .

I would really like some sort of short shift kit now but don't know which is best , and I'm definitely going to invest in some proper seats to finish the car off, I've always wanted to change them but love the look of the stockers, so i think ill store them away and invest in some carbon tillets with some custom trim work...
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Post by MrPT » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:50 pm

TomK wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:27 pm...he was the only one black flagged for noise a couple of times whilst we were there on a bloody TVR day :o
:rofl:

A mate recently bought a 981 GTS and I'm itching for a go now. £60k+ seems like a piss take but the chassis setup looks to be a significant step up on the Cayman S. Only thing I didn't like was super farty exhaust, but at least that can be turned off.
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Post by buzyg » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:31 pm

Great write up Beedub. :thumbsup:
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Post by Beedub » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:58 pm

Had a great afternoon out with the car, and re-assessed certain parts of my write up...

The gearbox ratios are bang on imo, really well stacked, the clutch on my car is heavy ( uprated clutch with stainless lines ) and your leg hurts after a while, The gear change itself isn't bad at all, but the throw is too long and it actually think it could use some more weight to it, its just doesnt slot home in the way the gt4 or say an mx5 does, so next week, I'm going to order something very cool, shiny and metal! :evil:

Re the braking performance i think the difference I'm feeling is the cold performance of the gt4 pads, i mentioned that bite and pedal feel, today in the higher ambient temps, and alittle use, that solid top of the pedal brake feel was their in my car too, so I'm guessing the gt4 may have a more road friendly pad that works quicker compared to the RS pagids I'm using ( id expect their ultimate endurance to not be as high due to this but cant comment in a few hours of driving) , one thing i do notice in my car is the rear brakes are also really working hard, today i came off the a38 , accelerated HARD, lets not talk speeds but quick :wink: i slammed on the anchors and i can hear all 4 tyres screeching , the fronts more so but definitely the rears biting hard and again today with the higher ambient temps the car pulled up dead straight , so i think the cheaper semi slicks I'm using more in their optimum range.... I'm looking forward to putting the car through its paces on the new tyres I've had for a while...

Engine - what a masterpiece this is, jesus christ , its really something isn't it.... i wish you guys could experience this motor with boost, its mental. rung out 2, 3rd, and the tyres are rotating just ahead of the road speed to the top of second you can feel the car gently stepping to the left and right hunting for traction , you look out the rear view and see clear smear of fresh rubber , just mental.... The sound of those ITB with the blower whining, whistling and popping away with the classic s54 metallic rasp and thrash is as about evocative , motoring nirvana as it get..... its exotica! LOVE IT... Gt4 3.8.... all exhaust note and pops/bangs without the Go, engine is not special in any way shape or form at all.

What a journey its been with this car over the years, what a thing to own. Feel blessed. Now I'm off for a 10 mile bike ride on the trails! :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving:
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Post by craig3.2 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:57 pm

Great write up,needing.

Never driven the gt4,but having driven various other Porsches,the best one for me is the 911 GT3 RS.......which feels like the homes from one finely tuned bit of metal...awesome car.
The z4m, especially supercharged,is a superb Cr,and one that's hard to beat.

Had a Jag f type,v6s AWD (85k car), for a few days, recently, and while it did things a little bit better/quicker/more grip and speed through corners(due to the 4wheel drive, obviously),it also didn't feel as raw or as exciting as the z4m does.
It certainly didn't feel twice the new price of my car,or over £65k better than the value of mine, currently.

Agree with that,Byron,the z4m is excellent in so many ways :thumbsup: :driving:
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Post by abar121 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:41 am

Hi Byron,
Many thanks for your review, really enjoyed that.

It's quite sobering to think that the stock 718S is as quick as a GT4 straight out of the box and on non-R tyres! It's not just the motor, but the GT4 / Turbo chassis parts. Even the stock 718 is a quick car these days - similar to a stock Z4M. Both are a good match for the 991.1 generation too.

I've driven both 718 models on track and whilst they are measurably better in every discipline (compared to the zed), the engine's really do let the side down for aural pleasure - there is none! It's actually the manual 718 on smaller wheels and brakes, that is the sweeter drive. A better turn in than the PTV (LSD) equipped S (option) and a much lighter feel.

The gearing also lets down most modern Pork and the GT4 / 718 are still geared way too long. Even with the added torque, the 718S feels cripped by such long 2nd and 3rd gear ratios.

I've not driven the GT4, but I have tried the 3.8 flat is in a 991 and the more powerful version in a GTS. Very nice, but still not the character and sound of our six throttle bodies screaming at 8k.

I really do think we have a bargain here with our Z4Ms. There is nothing like it, this side of a 997 GT3 :driving:

I'd love to experience your heavily modded example one day, it must be fabulous!

I drove an Evora Sport 410 also, that was quite some car!
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Post by Beedub » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:58 pm

abar121 wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:41 am Hi Byron,
Many thanks for your review, really enjoyed that.

It's quite sobering to think that the stock 718S is as quick as a GT4 straight out of the box and on non-R tyres! It's not just the motor, but the GT4 / Turbo chassis parts. Even the stock 718 is a quick car these days - similar to a stock Z4M. Both are a good match for the 991.1 generation too.

I've driven both 718 models on track and whilst they are measurably better in every discipline (compared to the zed), the engine's really do let the side down for aural pleasure - there is none! It's actually the manual 718 on smaller wheels and brakes, that is the sweeter drive. A better turn in than the PTV (LSD) equipped S (option) and a much lighter feel.

The gearing also lets down most modern Pork and the GT4 / 718 are still geared way too long. Even with the added torque, the 718S feels cripped by such long 2nd and 3rd gear ratios.

I've not driven the GT4, but I have tried the 3.8 flat is in a 991 and the more powerful version in a GTS. Very nice, but still not the character and sound of our six throttle bodies screaming at 8k.

I really do think we have a bargain here with our Z4Ms. There is nothing like it, this side of a 997 GT3 :driving:

I'd love to experience your heavily modded example one day, it must be fabulous!

I drove an Evora Sport 410 also, that was quite some car!
i really liked the 3.8 in the gts guise, i think it was just right.... Thanks for the comments, i really was quite surprised driven back to back how similar the cars feel once the z4m is given some upgrades. I love the new ever models but again i feel they are too expensive.
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Post by BMWZ4MC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:57 pm

Byron, all I can hear you saying is that you're going to add forced induction of some kind when you buy your GT4 :evil:
Very interesting thread and a great write up. I think the Z4M can still hold it's own in much more expensive company, especially when properly fettled.
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Post by buzyg » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:16 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:57 pm Byron, all I can hear you saying is that you're going to add forced induction of some kind when you buy your GT4 :evil:
Very interesting thread and a great write up. I think the Z4M can still hold it's own in much more expensive company, especially when properly fettled.
Indeed :thumbsup: and as most fast back drivers think it's about as quick as an MX5. It can still cause a little shock and awe too. :D
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Post by Beedub » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:27 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:57 pm Byron, all I can hear you saying is that you're going to add forced induction of some kind when you buy your GT4 :evil:
Very interesting thread and a great write up. I think the Z4M can still hold it's own in much more expensive company, especially when properly fettled.
no way buddy.... imagine buying one if these at 80k then spending a fortune tuning Porsches notoriously chocolate engines...... this dream ended after a proper drive.... lovely car but after such a highly modded car it didn't offer higher thrills I'd hoped infact it felt tame!! . a gt3 would but, unfortunately I'm no longer in the position to buy one like a once was. Today modifying a z4m to this level again is now not really viable either in reality , the engine mods are knocking on 10k with all the bells and whistles and today's exchange rate factored in, when you consider the cars value today, you'd be spending the cars value and then some in mods.... wheres the sense in that unless you keep for many many years to realise your money spend in "fun".
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