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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

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TomK
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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:07 pm

After strut tower advice/thoughts please...
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by Beedub » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:14 pm

you'll need some sort of reinforcement , the rear strut tower was never designed to take the additional loads. Ideally id want to tie a roll cage to it, or some sort of half cage.

Their some really fantastic options using the separate damper and barrel spring, MCS is one of them, nitron, Clubsports...


whats you reasoning for wanting to go this route and what gains are you hoping to achieve?
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TomK
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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm

Well to me the big gain is that the spring can be much softer and therefore far more progressive. Also there are tons more options available for different spring rates with that kind of design, with the barrel you're kind of limited.
Nitron, I've looked at, and they suggest the full coil over as does intrax (which I'm currently favouring). I spoke with them today and they have not heard of a failure on a Z4M setup like that yet, admittedly there's probably very few out there though!

Eta, not clear but I would love to hear from someone who has done it without a cage, I suspect I'll be waiting a while though :rofl: :tumbleweed emoji:
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by Beedub » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:59 pm

TomK wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm Well to me the big gain is that the spring can be much softer and therefore far more progressive. Also there are tons more options available for different spring rates with that kind of design, with the barrel you're kind of limited.
Nitron, I've looked at, and they suggest the full coil over as does intrax (which I'm currently favouring). I spoke with them today and they have not heard of a failure on a Z4M setup like that yet, admittedly there's probably very few out there though!

Eta, not clear but I would love to hear from someone who has done it without a cage, I suspect I'll be waiting a while though :rofl: :tumbleweed emoji:
its pretty much a no no without some real enforcement back their... Simpson have done a few of these conversions so maybe drop them a line. i don't think I've ever seen one without a cage or some sort of weld in piece tbh, and very few seem to stray from the stock layout as it works so well once sorted with top level items.

i look forward to seeing this thread develop however. After seeing this area on my own car many a time their just isn't enough material their to take this load imo.

Great thread however, wish we had more like it.
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TomK
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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:09 pm

Yes I think you might be right (if perhaps only in terms of peace of mind), but Intrax say it is not necessary (but won't guarantee that!) and I know of many e46s which face the same predicament and it being fine for them too. The RSMs are pretty fancy with them, I'm awaiting thoughts from simpsons funnily enough :)
I wonder whether adding something like this in might help matters without welding http://www.wiechers-sport.de/en/shop/do ... ten-detail
Otherwise I guess I'm looking at something like this
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MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by bradz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:27 pm

There is a nice chap called Scott Weeks on the Z4 facbook group that runs Gaz rear coil-overs on his Coupe, Hes been running them for a while without issue...

Send him a message and say Adam sent you, he will be more than happy to tell you all about them, I was very tempted to try some as the rear end on the coupe does look pretty solid... but I still wasn't sure enough to take the plunge.
Z4M Coupe, E92 M3, E46 M3 Track car :driving:

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:37 pm

I wasn't aware Gaz made a true coilover for the rear of these cars? Are you sure?
For reference pretty much all the 'coilovers' available for these are not a real coil over at the rear, they have a separate barrel spring and adjustable damper much like the OEM setup.
All KW(v2,3,clubsport), BC, etc run this. 3 or 4 companies that I know of make what I'm after, but they're many multiples of GAz normal stuff pricing.
Pm please his details if possible if they are a proper coil over, I'd be keen to hear his thoughts. Thanks
Is it an M coupe or regular? The setup is different, but still I'm interested in how he's got on with/without reinforcement.
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by Machine monkey » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:54 pm

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Nitron do a kit? They are local to me and make only the best kit! Not cheap and I am not sur if this is a generic kit or not? Call them and ask.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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TomK
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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:05 pm

Yes, as said above, I've been speaking with them. Cheers
Like intrax they do a kit like that or one for the pussies with the barrel damper arrangement :lol:
tbh I think I'll probably end up going down the pussy route :oops: let's see
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by bradz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:12 pm

They do but I don't think its available off the shelf.

I know what a coilover is... Its on a Si Coupe.

I did have a picture, but I can't find it at the moment.
Z4M Coupe, E92 M3, E46 M3 Track car :driving:

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by TomK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:18 pm

bradz wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:12 pm They do but I don't think its available off the shelf.

I know what a coilover is... Its on a Si Coupe.

I did have a picture, but I can't find it at the moment.
Cheers, sorry didn't mean to sound condescending but the amount of times I see people refer to an adjustable set up as a 'coilover' made me want to clarify :)
Interested very much to see how he's gone about it, if you could put me in touch some how that'd be great, thanks :thumbsup:
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by bradz » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:01 am

No worrys.
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Z4M Coupe, E92 M3, E46 M3 Track car :driving:

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Machine monkey
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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by Machine monkey » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:45 am

TomK wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:05 pm Yes, as said above, I've been speaking with them. Cheers
Like intrax they do a kit like that or one for the pussies with the barrel damper arrangement :lol:
tbh I think I'll probably end up going down the pussy route :oops: let's see
Whoops my mistake skim reading.

You may just have to find a good race company. And get somthing made and welded in. I can recomend a really good fabricator if you go that route. He builds some great stuff.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by GuidoK » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:42 pm

I think the main risk is that there is no real userexperience regarding if the chassis can hold a coilover or not without severely stiffening up the suspension.
There might be some people driving around with true rear coilovers, but how many miles did they do? What does it take to regard something as 'properly tested'? 5 cars having done 10k miles or 50 cars having done 100k miles? Im sure the last one doesnt fit the true coilover community.
It's very hard to predict if using true coilovers at the rear will damage the chassis or not.
But if you look at for example the e46 m3 subframe cracks what can happen if forces are not properly dealt with, thats not something you want to experience (and who's to say that things wont get even worse)
With normal coilover sets (kw/h&r/etc) with the conventional rear setup there are so many users that have done so many miles with it, that its pretty safe to say that that doesnt give any problems (although I have seen pictures of even front chassis perches/towers cracking due to stiffer springs)
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch

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Anyone on here running a real coil over rear setup?

Post by Beedub » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:06 pm

good input their from above.

yes i once saw a pic of the z4 with a ballooned Front turret using the kw club sport :o :o :o :o :o :o since having mine on I've made sure to run the underside reinforcement plates and the SB , between these two i feel pretty confident in the additional strenthening.
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