M market watch

[tomscott]

it's because people are complete monkeys when it comes to tyres a lot think -;

tyre = rubber

cheap or expensive whats the difference ?

I always get put off by budget tyres on a premium/sports car just makes me wonder what else has the owner been cheaping out on..

Bingo.

The comment fastidious owner polishes exhaust drives is 2k per year but it has the cheapest Chinese tyres you can buy.

[original guvnor]

My thoughts too & not trying to split hairs here but any buyer has to apply a degree of common sense in their search
There has to be some flexibility on the late servicing as with my current M car , , it was due a brake fluid change last October , i bought it in November lowloaded home into my garage & hasn't moved since .
First week in April it will be otr & in for Ins1 with the brake fluid which down the line may appear to be 6 months late Now if you were enquiring about a car initially & this info came to light would the car be worth any less or be seen as having a bad service record ?

Yes fair point on the brake fluid Mr W. If it was obvious it had been on SORN then I think that's ok for the brakes. For the service I wouldn't be so tolerant because the owner may have been turning the engine whilst it was SORN, idling it to warm it up and then switching it off again.

[Gustavo7]

My car has been serviced 7 times in the last 24 months where every scheduled service was done 3k to 4k miles before the on board computer requirements and in average every 3-4 months, with intermediate oil changes. Complete service history (always on time) by BMW and known Specialists (ETA Motorsport, BM Sport) with running in service at 1219 miles. It's currently on 113k+, with 13k to the next service and 11 months MOT. Virtually new MPSS all round. I might put it for sale at the end of the year or I might not... still making my mind up... and hoping the (even higher) mileage Z4MC on AT sells as it is only acting as a price anchor at the moment

[Fishy Dave]

If you don't care about the value of the car because you are long term owner that's fine but if you want to move the car on at some point you will have to accept that incomplete or self-service history will seriously damage the value of your car and will restrict the potential number of buyers.

I disagree with the part of this statement that refers to self-servicing. It's wrong to assume that someone self servicing their cars does not care about its future value. I DO care about the future value of my current and past cars. For reference self-servicing has never given me any trouble when it comes to selling them privately or achieving the money I expected.

Incomplete servicing or self servicing with no evidence or receipts is a completely different matter and would make me walk away or expect a discount to balance the gamble.

Owners self-service for a number of reasons and done correctly has a number of benefits:
You have control over what parts and fluids are used.
It saves money, money that then allows you to service more frequently than recommended and potentially offsetting any loss in re-sale value, if there is any.
If you believe in your abilities you know the job is done right: everything tightened correctly, cleaned as you go, new washers and gaskets fitted etc.
It's usually enjoyable and part of sports car ownership IMO.
You can keep a close eye out for wear or changes between services, particles in oil etc.

There are some downsides, including that it narrows potential buyers as it may prove harder to part exchange at a garage and as has been said, some potential owners may overlook a self serviced car.

We can agree to disagree about the merits or otherwise of self servicing, but felt the need to defend the "If you don't care about the value of the car......will seriously damage the value of your car". It 'may' damage the resale of your car if you have an ultra low mileage, cotton wool wrapped minter or you intend to trade it in to a main dealer but for your average 50k to 100k example sold privately it shouldn't greatly affect value IMHO (with the caveat that self servicing doesn't consist of a 5w40 budget oil change once every 2 years!).

Self servicing is here to stay and if anything will become more common as the cars get older. A potential buyer must decide for themselves on the merits of a particular car and evidence or otherwise of servicing. I can only encourage those who do work on their cars themselves to service on time or even more regularly, photograph the work, keep every receipt in a nice file and post about it on here.

As and when I sell my car (which is increasingly likely the more I read some of the posts on here) I will post the final value on here, along with money spent and saved and you can judge for yourselves.

Dave

[tomscott]

It's a difficult one. To a buyer service history is all you can go on the difference between a good and bad car.

You could be good with a spanner, an ex BMW master technician, and engineer or Joe blogs. But a stamp with a reputable establishments name on it means something to 90% of buyers.

I have to be honest I wouldn't buy a car that's been self serviced doesn't matter what it is. Mostly because my mechanical knowledge is lacking and I would trust the garage to do the job and have comeback if it's not.

And tbh the thoughts of others shouldnt put you off your ownership.

Everyone has an opinion and that's the point of the forum I get flamed for my views all the time it doesn't bother me they won't change my mind!

[original guvnor]

You are perfectly entitled to disagree but I wouldn't even consider for a moment spending the £20-25k that low mileage Z4MC's are fetching now on a car serviced by a private individual. You may consider that my loss, but I'm just being honest.

[Fishy Dave]

You are perfectly entitled to disagree but I wouldn't even consider for a moment spending the £20-25k that low mileage Z4MC's are fetching now on a car serviced by a private individual. You may consider that my loss, but I'm just being honest.

I totally understand and accept that view, I only took exception to the part I quoted.

[tjlazer]

At the stage of life these cars are at i think most buyers would still be looking for a complete service book, especially if, like me, they have one eye on 'depreciation proof' motoring. Sure you can service yourself but I'd rather do that in addition rather than instead of an annual service with a reputable garage and preserve the value of that investment. I do agree that there's absolutely no point in keeping a full BMWSH over a quality independent unless you still think a warranty is worth the cash (unlikely).

[JAD]

I was totally wrong about the mineral oil and generally thought that was true from the hundreds of threads here, m3 cutters and bmwforum and tbh that one thread has put to bed a long believed part of M servicing.

On the other hand I have my opinions like anyone else and stand by my original premise. I also don't think it's a great idea people are advocating late service history is ok especially if a new member is reading up on buying a car. It's fine until something bad happens. Ok it's rare but let's be fair it's not like it hasn't happened it's much more frequent than when I first joined.

If you had no part in when it was serviced because of a previous owner and it has poor history why take the risk? If me and many other members looked at the history and saw alarm bells why wouldn't anyone else when it comes to selling. The same 26 cars have been for sale on AT because of poor history.

People can rip the piss and scream at me until they are blue in the face and if that's a risk they are willing to take then fine. The response Dave got from BMW sums it up for me. After all the car in question that started the thread was pretty close to bmws late mileage parameters at 1550 miles. I also don't think the barrage and forum humiliation was called for, many of which were members with less than 500 posts but hey ho not the first time, won't be the last.

The new generation of members has made the forum a different place than it once was. I still enjoy reading and posting but many threads turn into

Oh Tom, come on champ, I really take issue with the post count comment here. I am sure you've contributed a lot to this forum, I'm a relative newbie; but being brutally honest, the input I've seen in greater amounts is in this thread, where your stance is to call out every single second hand ///M car that's posted for some issue. Price, servicing, seats, options/spec, colour match of bumpers - what ever it may be. Having 6k+ posts is wonderful, but if 50% of them contain content that turns out to be factually incorrect or unwarranted it really means jack all, fella. I'm afraid running-in-service-gate solidifies this for me!

[JAD]

Although one of your last posts completely goes against what I've just said, so perhaps I should go back in my box on a "frustrated at work" Friday afternoon...

[Fishy Dave]

perhaps I should go back in my box on a "frustrated at work" Friday afternoon...

I think I'm having one of those days too, feeling a bit grumpy.

[tomscott]

I was totally wrong about the mineral oil and generally thought that was true from the hundreds of threads here, m3 cutters and bmwforum and tbh that one thread has put to bed a long believed part of M servicing.

On the other hand I have my opinions like anyone else and stand by my original premise. I also don't think it's a great idea people are advocating late service history is ok especially if a new member is reading up on buying a car. It's fine until something bad happens. Ok it's rare but let's be fair it's not like it hasn't happened it's much more frequent than when I first joined.

If you had no part in when it was serviced because of a previous owner and it has poor history why take the risk? If me and many other members looked at the history and saw alarm bells why wouldn't anyone else when it comes to selling. The same 26 cars have been for sale on AT because of poor history.

People can rip the piss and scream at me until they are blue in the face and if that's a risk they are willing to take then fine. The response Dave got from BMW sums it up for me. After all the car in question that started the thread was pretty close to bmws late mileage parameters at 1550 miles. I also don't think the barrage and forum humiliation was called for, many of which were members with less than 500 posts but hey ho not the first time, won't be the last.

The new generation of members has made the forum a different place than it once was. I still enjoy reading and posting but many threads turn into

Oh Tom, come on champ, I really take issue with the post count comment here. I am sure you've contributed a lot to this forum, I'm a relative newbie; but being brutally honest, the input I've seen in greater amounts is in this thread, where your stance is to call out every single second hand ///M car that's posted for some issue. Price, servicing, seats, options/spec, colour match of bumpers - what ever it may be. Having 6k+ posts is wonderful, but if 50% of them contain content that turns out to be factually incorrect or unwarranted it really means jack all, fella. I'm afraid running-in-service-gate solidifies this for me!

I'm glad your being brutally honest but come on your commenting on the M market watch and contributing nothing but having a go at my contributions. Regardless of your views on the running in service which I have admitted to being wrong... But what I was reporting has been the standard thought of what a running in service consisted of and the thread has cleared that up.

I'm in the market I want another car and ive enquired about said cars. If I cant contribute my findings then whats the point full stop.

[JAD]

I was totally wrong about the mineral oil and generally thought that was true from the hundreds of threads here, m3 cutters and bmwforum and tbh that one thread has put to bed a long believed part of M servicing.

On the other hand I have my opinions like anyone else and stand by my original premise. I also don't think it's a great idea people are advocating late service history is ok especially if a new member is reading up on buying a car. It's fine until something bad happens. Ok it's rare but let's be fair it's not like it hasn't happened it's much more frequent than when I first joined.

If you had no part in when it was serviced because of a previous owner and it has poor history why take the risk? If me and many other members looked at the history and saw alarm bells why wouldn't anyone else when it comes to selling. The same 26 cars have been for sale on AT because of poor history.

People can rip the piss and scream at me until they are blue in the face and if that's a risk they are willing to take then fine. The response Dave got from BMW sums it up for me. After all the car in question that started the thread was pretty close to bmws late mileage parameters at 1550 miles. I also don't think the barrage and forum humiliation was called for, many of which were members with less than 500 posts but hey ho not the first time, won't be the last.

The new generation of members has made the forum a different place than it once was. I still enjoy reading and posting but many threads turn into

Oh Tom, come on champ, I really take issue with the post count comment here. I am sure you've contributed a lot to this forum, I'm a relative newbie; but being brutally honest, the input I've seen in greater amounts is in this thread, where your stance is to call out every single second hand ///M car that's posted for some issue. Price, servicing, seats, options/spec, colour match of bumpers - what ever it may be. Having 6k+ posts is wonderful, but if 50% of them contain content that turns out to be factually incorrect or unwarranted it really means jack all, fella. I'm afraid running-in-service-gate solidifies this for me!

I'm glad your being brutally honest but come on your commenting on the M market watch and contributing nothing but having a go at my contributions. Regardless of your views on the running in service which I have admitted to being wrong... But what I was reporting has been the standard thought of what a running in service consisted of and the thread has cleared that up.

I'm in the market I want another car and ive enquired about said cars. If I cant contribute my findings then whats the point full stop.

Because your contribution is quite frustratingly negative, Tom. It comes across as moaning about a market you were once part of. Perhaps it's written rather than spoken word but I read most of your posts with "Christ, man, buck up and buy a bloody car!".

Just to frame this, once again, your Coupe was the reason I bought my Zed two years ago over a Porka - so I have the up most respect for your ownership of that car. But since that point; since you sold and I bought, I have seen very little (updated from "nothing" as your last quote of a posted car was actually verging on positive!) that actually adds to the thread.

[JAD]

perhaps I should go back in my box on a "frustrated at work" Friday afternoon...

I think I'm having one of those days too, feeling a bit grumpy.

Yes, perhaps a forum is not the best place to visit on a day like today!

[tomscott]

Oh Tom, come on champ, I really take issue with the post count comment here. I am sure you've contributed a lot to this forum, I'm a relative newbie; but being brutally honest, the input I've seen in greater amounts is in this thread, where your stance is to call out every single second hand ///M car that's posted for some issue. Price, servicing, seats, options/spec, colour match of bumpers - what ever it may be. Having 6k+ posts is wonderful, but if 50% of them contain content that turns out to be factually incorrect or unwarranted it really means jack all, fella. I'm afraid running-in-service-gate solidifies this for me!

I'm glad your being brutally honest but come on your commenting on the M market watch and contributing nothing but having a go at my contributions. Regardless of your views on the running in service which I have admitted to being wrong... But what I was reporting has been the standard thought of what a running in service consisted of and the thread has cleared that up.

I'm in the market I want another car and ive enquired about said cars. If I cant contribute my findings then whats the point full stop.

Because your contribution is quite frustratingly negative, Tom. It comes across as moaning about a market you were once part of. Perhaps it's written rather than spoken word but I read most of your posts with "Christ, man, buck up and buy a bloody car!".

Just to frame this, once again, your Coupe was the reason I bought my Zed two years ago over a Porka - so I have the up most respect for your ownership of that car. But since that point; since you sold and I bought, I have seen very little (updated from "nothing" as your last quote of a posted car was actually verging on positive!) that actually adds to the thread.