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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

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pHilli0
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by pHilli0 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:26 pm

mc5 wrote:Its not looking good for the cayman or any other car in this sector. Hadnt even gone into bore score issues which is another factor.

If only bmw had put some decent dampers on this car it would be pretty much spot on
Exactly !!! I despair at people who sell the whole car because they don't like the dampers, or the seats, or the what ever. The underlying package in the Z4 M is fantastic, with some stupid decisions around it. Two big weaknesses for me were suspension and brakes, and I changed both to KW V3s and Brembo 6/4s / Pagid RS2-9.

Just that alone is transformational. What ever else is on your bug list, go get it upgraded and you will end up with a car that is superb value and just how you personally like it. If you sell up and buy into something else, you swap the positives and negatives around end up with something else that is better in some ways but compromised again, unless you add 40k-60k plus into the mix and get better everything, but that sort of money is a massive jump.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by Babw » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:41 pm

Engine on the Z4M is much better than a 987.1 but I think it's a little unfair to say the Cayman is less "fun". If you drive it the right way i.e bootful of throttle and late turn in etc it will slide. It's got an inherently more balanced chassis than a Z4M which if you drive sensibly even at speeds it will feel a lot more predictable. I mean doing 60mph in a 2CV is fun but that's because it's approaching it's limits. Also I've modified my Z4M but that was to make it more predictable with regards to suspension/ride i.e more like the Cayman. As stock it was a bit like a pinball going down B roads and it is fun not being fully in control but I don't think the Cayman should be penalised for being a better riding car out of the box.

I think it comes down to whether you prefer a front engined or a mid engined chassis to be honest.

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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by mc5 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:50 pm

Ok thanks for the replies particularly Dan for your comprensive response. Think I'll give the Cayman a miss as even just sitting in it and revving it i couldn't get excited so can't be a good sign. The shifter felt loose and the engine dull.

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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by Viren » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:59 am

And unless you going for a newer one I really think the rear end and rear spoiler look a bit ugly
07 Z4MC standard spec

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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by pHilli0 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:03 pm

Babw wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:41 pm Engine on the Z4M is much better than a 987.1 but I think it's a little unfair to say the Cayman is less "fun". If you drive it the right way i.e bootful of throttle and late turn in etc it will slide. It's got an inherently more balanced chassis than a Z4M which if you drive sensibly even at speeds it will feel a lot more predictable. I mean doing 60mph in a 2CV is fun but that's because it's approaching it's limits. Also I've modified my Z4M but that was to make it more predictable with regards to suspension/ride i.e more like the Cayman. As stock it was a bit like a pinball going down B roads and it is fun not being fully in control but I don't think the Cayman should be penalised for being a better riding car out of the box.

I think it comes down to whether you prefer a front engined or a mid engined chassis to be honest.
Valid comment. I think it's possible to slightly tame the wildest parts of the Z4M, but still retain some element of rawness and that engine. But it must be really hard to excite further the more refined composure of the cayman, even with the advantage of mid engined and more neutral handling.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by Vanne » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:54 am

When I bought my Mcoupe, it was either that or a 2008 Cayman S. Took many Caymans for a test drive as there are lots about.. took one Mcoupe for a test drive and was immediately sold.
That said, your itch may vary, go drive a few, buy one, see how you go. ;) You can always comeback.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by Vanne » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:57 am

Viren wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:59 am And unless you going for a newer one I really think the rear end and rear spoiler look a bit ugly
Yup I agree, our coupe is pretty timeless actually.. I especially get that when I see the older (same age as our cars) Caymans and Boxters.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by SpiketheBike » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:24 pm

mc5 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:49 pm

Anyone have a non biased experience of both

cayman in question
On a Z4 Forum? :rofl: :rofl:
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by nickw6666 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:50 am

Just to add a comment or two.

I posted recently on moving to a 2007 Porsche 997.11 911 C2S which I have now purchased. I also have a 2007 Z4M coupe that I have owned for 9 years which I was going to sell when I got the 911.

Well I still own the Z4M coupe as I can't bring myself to sell it after finding that actually I prefer it to the 911.

Some may think I'm nuts, but like many on this forum, I understand what makes the Z4M a very special car. It's just so much more exciting than either the 911 to Cayman S, thanks mainly to that sensational S54 engine. The M97 family engines from Porsche are simply not as good let alone as reliable.

Some time ago I nearly swapped my Z4MC for a Cayman, but passed when I realised that the Cayman was so well balanced and smooth, that it was as challenging to drive as a Focus.

So my thoughts are, be careful about moving on from your Z4M until you are absolutely sure you're moving to something you will enjoy more.

The Z4M is a relatively rare car and if you have a good one, you may struggle to find one as good if you want to buy back in at a later date.

I'm in a position that I can hang onto both of my cars cars for now so am enjoying both, but I know that the Z4M is the one that will be harder to replace. The 911 and Cayman are plentiful...

As a daily driver, the Porsche's are a bit more benign and simple to live with, but they just dont thrill in the same way as the Z4M.

Good luck with your decision.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by mmm-five » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:07 am

I'll happily own either.

The final decider for me at the time was that the Z4MC was much cheaper (£25k vs £34k) to an equivalent spec/age Cayman S.

My only proper driving of a Cayman S was at/around the Nurburgring, but that was abut 2 year after I'd already bought the Z4MC.

Brakes on the Cayman S were much better than the Z4MC, I found the seats held me better, and it didn't punish you as much if I'd got slightly off line on a fast corner (i.e. not as twitchy).
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by RedUn » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:39 pm

I came the opposite way from a Cayman S to the Z4M.

I never found it exciting at all unless you were in serious licence loosing territory...
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by Vanne » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:41 am

You can swap brakes and seats in the Z4M :thumbsup:
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by JAD » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:51 am

dan yeates wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:47 pm I had a Cayman S. My recent car history is as follows:

Bought a Z4MR as my weekend car
Sold Z4MR to buy a house
Bought Z4 3.0i as my all round everyday and weekend car
Sold the Z4 3.0i as I found it dull
Bought a TVR Chimaera as my weekend car and got lifts in work for a while
Bought a Cayman S as my everyday car and kept my TVR for weekends
Sold the Cayman S as it was becoming a money pit
Bought back my old Z4MR
Sold the Chimaera and bought a TVR Griffith

I now have two weekend cars! Haha!

The Cayman S was a great car, but I don't regret swapping it for the Z4MR. The Cayman was becoming a bit of a money pit. Loads of things went wrong with it, it rattled, the engine noise wasn't anywhere near as nice as the Z4M and it lacked the element of fun.

The main thing I didn't like on the car was the gear change. I could never get it to feel right. My car had done 60k miles, so not loads. It had masses of play in the shifter and it was often difficult to engage gears. It wasn't tight and precise like the BMW one (which I admit you do need to be careful with and rev match) it just felt worn out. I did replace all the bushes and various shifter parts with a metal bearing kit from the USA and it improved the feel no end, but it was still awful shifting into first and second. I hated it. That's the downside of long gear shift cables I guess.

It handled amazingly well, but it was all a bit too precise. It wasn't mad enough to be fun, whereas the Z4M is. The Z4M is much more happy being a lout! The Porsche is much more composed. I also missed the convertible roof on the Z4MR, although that's a non argument as you can get both cars in both guises (Cayman/Boxster - Z4MC/Z4MR). I did like the way I could fit standard Thule roof bars to the Cayman, so I could take my bike or kayak out. But now I just use my girlfriend's M135i instead.

I did seriously consider changing my 987.1 Cayman S for a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and Sport Chrono. That was the reason I sold it initially. But then the opportunity to buy my old Z4MR came up, so I did.

I would seriously consider whether you can afford to go for the 987.2. The 987.1 was plagued with various engine problems which were sorted on the facelift. And it looks so much better. It's more money, but I think it will also hold its value better. And it will cost less in the long run. I was always scared that my 987.1 was going to cost me another bucket load of money, which took away from the enjoyment. I just don't have that worry in my Z4M.

In summary, the Cayman S is a very very good car, but not without its problems. It doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the BMW and really needs to be revved to get the power out of it. But it's precise and handles incredibly well.

Common issues:

Suspension bushes are terrible. Budget to have them all replaced. And ball joints. Mine all needed doing after 60k miles.
Gear shift bushes, cables and synchros. Test the gearbox properly.
Engine noise and oil consumption. Check for smoke and rattles. Do get a borescope check done by a specialist. Scored bores will cost you thousands to sort. The 987.2 won't suffer from scored bores as it has the later DFI engine with different liners.
Electric windows. They love to break regulators and motors. Mine did. £1000 per side!
Air con. Really check it works. Although it's not a difficult or expensive job, it's still a cost. The condensors get battered at the front of the car. I replaced mine myself. About £100 in parts for both sides, plus the cost for a professional to come in, vacuum and system and regas. £200 in total.
Clutches. They don't last long. Neither do flywheels. I think my car had lived in a town or city all its life prior to me owning it as it had had two clutch and flywheel changes in 65k miles! Not cheap! The clutch isn't the easiest thing to use on the Cayman. It's easy to ride the clutch and very easy to stall.
Rusting exhausts and loose heatshields. The exhausts are rubbish on them. Mine looked terrible, really rusty and the heatshields were loose as the fixing bolts had pulled through the heatshield. Used to rattle like mad!


I hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

I would make sure you get a good extended test drive. Make sure you like it. I really liked mine and would get another, but I'd get a 987.2 PDK if I do it again.

Dan
Hi Dan,

On the subject of your car history, I'd be interested to know more about your Chim. A friend picked up a Cerb at the weekend - we drove to Bristol to get it and on the way back my ///M really paled into insignificance against something like a TVR. I'm not the quickest A-B driver, so prefer sound/looks/fun of the Chim/Cerb... debating putting my Zed up for sale therefore.

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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by ocrx8 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:47 pm

JAD wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:51 am
dan yeates wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:47 pm I had a Cayman S. My recent car history is as follows:

Bought a Z4MR as my weekend car
Sold Z4MR to buy a house
Bought Z4 3.0i as my all round everyday and weekend car
Sold the Z4 3.0i as I found it dull
Bought a TVR Chimaera as my weekend car and got lifts in work for a while
Bought a Cayman S as my everyday car and kept my TVR for weekends
Sold the Cayman S as it was becoming a money pit
Bought back my old Z4MR
Sold the Chimaera and bought a TVR Griffith

I now have two weekend cars! Haha!

The Cayman S was a great car, but I don't regret swapping it for the Z4MR. The Cayman was becoming a bit of a money pit. Loads of things went wrong with it, it rattled, the engine noise wasn't anywhere near as nice as the Z4M and it lacked the element of fun.

The main thing I didn't like on the car was the gear change. I could never get it to feel right. My car had done 60k miles, so not loads. It had masses of play in the shifter and it was often difficult to engage gears. It wasn't tight and precise like the BMW one (which I admit you do need to be careful with and rev match) it just felt worn out. I did replace all the bushes and various shifter parts with a metal bearing kit from the USA and it improved the feel no end, but it was still awful shifting into first and second. I hated it. That's the downside of long gear shift cables I guess.

It handled amazingly well, but it was all a bit too precise. It wasn't mad enough to be fun, whereas the Z4M is. The Z4M is much more happy being a lout! The Porsche is much more composed. I also missed the convertible roof on the Z4MR, although that's a non argument as you can get both cars in both guises (Cayman/Boxster - Z4MC/Z4MR). I did like the way I could fit standard Thule roof bars to the Cayman, so I could take my bike or kayak out. But now I just use my girlfriend's M135i instead.

I did seriously consider changing my 987.1 Cayman S for a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and Sport Chrono. That was the reason I sold it initially. But then the opportunity to buy my old Z4MR came up, so I did.

I would seriously consider whether you can afford to go for the 987.2. The 987.1 was plagued with various engine problems which were sorted on the facelift. And it looks so much better. It's more money, but I think it will also hold its value better. And it will cost less in the long run. I was always scared that my 987.1 was going to cost me another bucket load of money, which took away from the enjoyment. I just don't have that worry in my Z4M.

In summary, the Cayman S is a very very good car, but not without its problems. It doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the BMW and really needs to be revved to get the power out of it. But it's precise and handles incredibly well.

Common issues:

Suspension bushes are terrible. Budget to have them all replaced. And ball joints. Mine all needed doing after 60k miles.
Gear shift bushes, cables and synchros. Test the gearbox properly.
Engine noise and oil consumption. Check for smoke and rattles. Do get a borescope check done by a specialist. Scored bores will cost you thousands to sort. The 987.2 won't suffer from scored bores as it has the later DFI engine with different liners.
Electric windows. They love to break regulators and motors. Mine did. £1000 per side!
Air con. Really check it works. Although it's not a difficult or expensive job, it's still a cost. The condensors get battered at the front of the car. I replaced mine myself. About £100 in parts for both sides, plus the cost for a professional to come in, vacuum and system and regas. £200 in total.
Clutches. They don't last long. Neither do flywheels. I think my car had lived in a town or city all its life prior to me owning it as it had had two clutch and flywheel changes in 65k miles! Not cheap! The clutch isn't the easiest thing to use on the Cayman. It's easy to ride the clutch and very easy to stall.
Rusting exhausts and loose heatshields. The exhausts are rubbish on them. Mine looked terrible, really rusty and the heatshields were loose as the fixing bolts had pulled through the heatshield. Used to rattle like mad!


I hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

I would make sure you get a good extended test drive. Make sure you like it. I really liked mine and would get another, but I'd get a 987.2 PDK if I do it again.

Dan
Hi Dan,

On the subject of your car history, I'd be interested to know more about your Chim. A friend picked up a Cerb at the weekend - we drove to Bristol to get it and on the way back my ///M really paled into insignificance against something like a TVR. I'm not the quickest A-B driver, so prefer sound/looks/fun of the Chim/Cerb... debating putting my Zed up for sale therefore.

I think that's what a V8 does to you. My M feels somewhat 'thin' after driving an AMG V8.
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Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

Post by JAD » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:03 pm

ocrx8 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:47 pmI think that's what a V8 does to you. My M feels somewhat 'thin' after driving an AMG V8.
Are you talking SLK and SL? Not driven either yet actually. I've driven E and C class 63s, they really didn't give me the same feeling as the Chim/Cerbs nor the Zed.

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