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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:20 pm

yessssss ill be out to get that!!
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:29 pm

anyone manage to pick this up??? cant find it west mids side yet....
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Fishy Dave » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:12 pm

I got my copy today, it's a two page article with a few mistakes and misquotes, but generally it's positive at least.
The author of the piece has done some research himself and has added bits like recommending toughened bearing shells? I'd described to him how the rear centre brake lights can crack but still work, but the guide suggests checking the unit works. He also mentions my Z4 book (which I haven't finished yet) and that I'm an ARDS instructor which I was but didn't tell him about. I talked about the roof motor relocation and to contact the individuals on here that do it but somehow this got lost in translation and he recommended 'the clever people at the BMW Car Club' :headbang:
He seems obsessed with the 35 currently for sale as if this is a lot when I told him it was nothing compared to the number of Boxster or Cayman for sale.
I told him the standard brakes are over servoed and more than strong enough for road use but are worth upgrading for track, I didn't say they 'can feel dead'. I could go on...... :fuelfire:

Sorry for the mistakes, but I'm happy that the M keeps getting press exposure anyway. :)
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Angelus666 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:19 pm

Couple of badly taken pics in Tesco...
Last edited by Wondermike on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Removed images

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Wondermike » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:42 pm

Sorry guys by all means discuss and quote the article, but we can’t get away with posting scans or photos of the full pages.

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Angelus666 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:04 pm

Sorry, my bad.... :|

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by buzyg » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:05 pm

Looked last week didn't spot it. Will take another look this week.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Angelus666 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:14 pm

35 cars....you'd guess they think that's not a lot, but then the haggling point at the end kind of suggests you can haggle because of the surplus available?

For reference a quick search on autotrader shows there are 73 porsche boxsters and caymans available within 5 miles of my location. :headbang:

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Wondermike » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:18 pm

Angelus666 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:04 pm Sorry, my bad.... :|
No problem :thumbsup:

Does make you wonder though, most Z4 articles seem to have errors and misquotes, which we pick up on, but are all reviews the same?

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Fishy Dave » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:28 pm

No, I don't think they copy each others articles on the whole, they all contain different errors :D

I have decided that it is the last one I will contribute to unless I am shown a proof so I can see what I'm putting my name to, as it's personally embarrassing. Last months BMW Car magazine has been the most accurate so far IMO.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Fishy Dave wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:12 pm I got my copy today, it's a two page article with a few mistakes and misquotes, but generally it's positive at least.
The author of the piece has done some research himself and has added bits like recommending toughened bearing shells? I'd described to him how the rear centre brake lights can crack but still work, but the guide suggests checking the unit works. He also mentions my Z4 book (which I haven't finished yet) and that I'm an ARDS instructor which I was but didn't tell him about. I talked about the roof motor relocation and to contact the individuals on here that do it but somehow this got lost in translation and he recommended 'the clever people at the BMW Car Club' :headbang:
He seems obsessed with the 35 currently for sale as if this is a lot when I told him it was nothing compared to the number of Boxster or Cayman for sale.
I told him the standard brakes are over servoed and more than strong enough for road use but are worth upgrading for track, I didn't say they 'can feel dead'. I could go on...... :fuelfire:

Sorry for the mistakes, but I'm happy that the M keeps getting press exposure anyway. :)
i don't know why but I'm really annoyed lol..... he seems to have just added BS for the sake of it, i know you would have given this guy the real facts , especially as you've used yours in anger so much, the standard brakes have never, ever felt dead they are bloody fantastic, i only changed mine due to the extra power and sprint usage i do.... The roof relocation thing is imo something id never do, they look messy again imo , keep the stock location and just be really proactive with the drain clearance. The ///M being a more niche car they seem to be garaged and overall its generally less of an issue on this model, the same problems still arise but generally the cars are kept dryer due to their "weekend Toy" type credentials.

Lots of press for this car recently and tbh its a tiny , relatively light 2 seater sports car, with a genuinely class s6 , manual box, excellent driving position and steering feel, a proper hydraulic rack.... whats not to love.... its ALREADY a classic in todays world for me and every chance i get i talk this car up, its absolutely deserved! I really get bothered by the fact that every article i read on the z4m is FULL of mistakes , literally all of them....
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by nickw6666 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pm

Hmmm - I read it and thought there were a number of inaccurate or shall we say slightly misleading comments.

I agree with the comments on this topic that focusing on 35 cars for sale in relation to it being positioned as a classic is a bit silly. There are hundreds of Boxsters / Caymans for sale as said, so 35 is a low number and funnily enough is more than I've seen for quite some time. There are quite a few Porsche 993/964 air-cooled cars for sale but does that affect their status, not at all as the overall numbers are still low same as the Z4M.

The Z4M Roadster and Coupe have their place and both have their benefits, and both are hard core driving cars. That said, by adding a permanent hard roof, the Coupe is twice as stiff as the Roadster (32000 Nm/degree v 14500 Nm/degree), so there can be no way that a Roadster can feel nearly as stiff as a Coupe when really pushing on such as on track, even though the Roadster is more than stiff enough. In standard form, the Coupe will be slightly faster around the Ring than a Roadster simply due to the rigidity and slightly stiffer suspension set up.

I say this not to create a Roadster v Coupe debate, which is pointless as one has clear obvious differences over the other and both are great, but to question the writer of this article for the way he has written some points. It's as if he is trying to create a case for the Roadster over the Coupe, which is nonsense of course as if you want open top experience you go for the Roadster, and if you want the permanent roof and coupe form and stiffer set up you go with the Coupe.

We are talking fine margins obviously here, but I think the writer has picked up on a comment and made a thing of it rather than spending word space covering more areas in relation to the car and market.

For a car magazine, I would have expected better and the contrast with the review on Pistonheads some time ago is quite stark.

It also worries me a little when they mention the changing of big end shells at 75K miles as a precaution. It's way to early to be putting that out into the mainstream. There are many M3's with S54 engines that have gone beyond 100K mileage with no issues at all. The S54 has proven very reliable and is not a Porsche M96/M97 with inbuilt design issues.

There are some good points but overall I would have thought the article could have been better written.

Fishy Dave - it's certainly no fault of yours!
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Fishy Dave » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:53 am

nickw6666 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pmThe Z4M Roadster and Coupe have their place and both have their benefits, and both are hard core driving cars. That said, by adding a permanent hard roof, the Coupe is twice as stiff as the Roadster (32000 Nm/degree v 14500 Nm/degree), so there can be no way that a Roadster can feel nearly as stiff as a Coupe when really pushing on such as on track, even though the Roadster is more than stiff enough. In standard form, the Coupe will be slightly faster around the Ring than a Roadster simply due to the rigidity and slightly stiffer suspension set up.
I take responsibility for those comments. Not disputing the torsional figures, but I do stand by my feelings that I can't really tell the difference in chassis stiffness when driving on track. I can feel plenty of other differences when hopping from one to another but stiffness (oo-er) isn't one of them. It could be that the Roadster chassis is so stiff that to tell the difference between this and the Coupe requires a pro driver, stopwatch and a 12.9 mile circuit? When Tom and I have stopped cars (at four or five circuits now) our performance is comparable in both cars but the spec and geometry keeps changing so it is difficult to make exact chassis comparisons. I've owned other convertibles where chassis flex can be felt, but the Z4 isn't one of them. I did say 'it feels almost as stiff as the Coupe' in the article. :)
I would like to get a few of us together at a trackday next year and providing the driver takes responsibility for the well being of my car I'm happy for a Coupe driver to compare for themselves.
nickw6666 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pmIt's as if he is trying to create a case for the Roadster over the Coupe, which is nonsense of course as if you want open top experience you go for the Roadster, and if you want the permanent roof and coupe form and stiffer set up you go with the Coupe.
I think I probably was making a case for the Roadster, that it is as good as the Coupe, not better, not worse. Too often I have read how the M Coupe is the one to go for as an investment/track car/hardcore driving machine with the M Roadster being largely forgotten or considered the 'soft' option. This writer actually phoned me back after nearly an hours telephone call to clarify if the M Roadster was sort of like a standard Boxster whilst the M Coupe was a Cayman S equivalent? :headbang:
It wound me up a bit and led me to mention the lower current purchase price of the Roadster, slightly less weight etc. As you say they are both hardcore driving machines, but Joe Public doesn't seem to know that.

You are right that it is very different from the Pistonheads guide. They had far more space and spoke to more owners in that one, with research covering many weeks. The Autocar writer does one of these articles every week and is limited to a couple of pages to list the things he thinks the average armchair reader/pub expert will want to read. I did politely offer to proof read the article but he declined.

It's difficult to know how to approach the rod bearing issue in an article like this. Very few people seem to have experienced the problem, but it is known and can strike at almost any mileage. How would you (I don't just mean you Nick) suggest it is mentioned without it seeming like a ticking time bomb?

Dave :)
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by original guvnor » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am

It's interesting how we all have different views on the rigidity. I've driven Darren's Z4MR a few times and it is a lot less stiff than my Z4MC. I would say immediately noticeably so. That's not to its detriment - if anything I think the Z4MR is the nicer road car. The coupe is more fidgety and less comfortable. Both cars are pretty much stock too.

The Coupe is worth more simply because of three factors - First, it's rarer because there aren't thousands of E86's in non-M guise on the roads so it is nowhere near as ubiquitous as the roadster. Second, it's sort of seen as the M Coupe's younger brother and that is dragging values higher and 3) it is just prettier to look at to most people's eyes. When I say that I'm not saying the roadster is ugly (I owned one for many years) it's just not as attractive as the coupe is to look at. The fact that the coupe was also used as the BMW GT3 car of that era (albeit with a V8 engine in) won't have done it any harm either. Competition heritage can lead to higher values for the road cars they are based on.

Dave - I would write a letter to the Editor and see if they print it listing something of things you've mentioned in this thread.

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Fishy Dave » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:01 am

original guvnor wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am
The Coupe is worth more simply because of three factors - First, it's rarer because there aren't thousands of E86's in non-M guise on the roads so it is nowhere near as ubiquitous as the roadster. Second, it's sort of seen as the M Coupe's younger brother and that is dragging values higher and 3) it is just prettier to look at to most people's eyes. When I say that I'm not saying the roadster is ugly (I owned one for many years) it's just not as attractive as the coupe is to look at. The fact that the coupe was also used as the BMW GT3 car of that era (albeit with a V8 engine in) won't have done it any harm either. Competition heritage can lead to higher values for the road cars they are based on.
I completely agree.

As for writing a letter, I will try but I've been misquoted in magazines before and I don't think I've ever had a retraction or correction.
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