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E85 3.0i buying advice wanted

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martduff5

Member
Good afternoon all

I am considering purchasing a Z4 as a weekend car. I used to have a TVR Chimaera 450 which I sold just under 2 years ago and in all honesty the main reason I'm looking to buy something is so I don't lose all my NCB which expires 2 years after not being used on a car.

So I'm looking for something low maintenance, cheap to run but also fun. Most people naturally suggest an MX5 but they don't grab my attention and having come from a 4.5 litre V8, the noise of a car is important to me.

I've looked at the Nissan 350Z but think they're too molested with, hard to find one a decent one for the right price and I suspect the maintenance costs will be high.

So I landed on the idea of a Z4. I've been reading up on the E85 and E89, looking at all the engine options etc. I feel like I'm being drawn to the E85 due to its relative simplicity (again, brings me closer to my TVR compass point) and naturally its lower purchase price, and I think they've aged really well too. Looks-wise, the facelifted E85 hits the spot but in terms of engine noise and maintenance is there much difference between the N52B30 and the pre-facelift M44B30 version?

I'm aware of some common faults such as the roof motor/pump failing (ideal would be for it to be relocated to the boot) and window regulators but is there anything else to be aware of?

I'm only interested in the E85 convertible, with a manual gearbox. Whilst the E86 coupe would be more practical (especially as I'll need to keep the car on the street), I just don't quite like the looks and its price point is too high for me.
I've also not really considered the 2.5i so don't know if that's worth looking at or not. I've not given a second thought to the 2.0i either, but given how cheap they are is it still too big a sacrifice on sound and performance? That feels like its straying into MX5 territory...
 
Welcome aboard.
I'll ignore the 2.0 4-pots..................

Prefacelift:
2.2i M54 - 170 bhp
2.5i M54 - 192 bhp
3.0i M54 - 231 bhp

Facelift:
2.5i N52 - 177bhp
2.5si N52 - 218 bhp
3.0si N52 - 265 bhp

Both engines are reliable enough to get you to 300k with regular maintenance. The M54 is more of a low down torque engine, whereas the N52 seems happier to rev higher to produce it's power. Both straight 6 but the N52 has a raspier exhaust note.
Main difference which you need to consider when buying is that the N52 has an electric water pump which can die quickly, giving you about half a mile to pull over and switch off. These tend to last around 75-95k-ish. So if there's no record of it being done budget around £300 for a replacement Pierburg one, with Mahle thermostat, plus labour if you can't do it yourself.

Apart from the engine, the main issue raising its head lately is the failure of airbag control modules on the prefacelifts. Plenty of threads with tales of woe on here.
The facelift used a different system and rarely seems to have any problems.
 
Thanks very much, that's very useful. Seems like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other! I was initially defaulting to the 3.0 engine but the 2.5si could perhaps be worth a look- to seems to fall into the same price category as the pre-facelift 3.0i and doesn't appear to sacrifice a huge amount of performance (on paper).

I saw this one on AutoTrader...if you look at the video, that engine noise doesn't sound too good does it?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405059393199?sort=relevance&searchId=c13d2cd1-f984-4f2f-a00f-c6d67862ae2b&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&maximum-badge-engine-size=2.6&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.4&model=Z4&postcode=bs20%207ey&price-from=5000&price-to=5500&fromsra
 
martduff5 said:
Thanks very much, that's very useful. Seems like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other! I was initially defaulting to the 3.0 engine but the 2.5si could perhaps be worth a look- to seems to fall into the same price category as the pre-facelift 3.0i and doesn't appear to sacrifice a huge amount of performance (on paper).

I saw this one on AutoTrader...if you look at the video, that engine noise doesn't sound too good does it?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405059393199?sort=relevance&searchId=c13d2cd1-f984-4f2f-a00f-c6d67862ae2b&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&maximum-badge-engine-size=2.6&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.4&model=Z4&postcode=bs20%207ey&price-from=5000&price-to=5500&fromsra
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The driver's seat may be worn, the owner is careful to avoid you seeing it. That car has never been garaged, filthy with green fungus on the aerial. The garage door looks small so the owner probably does not bother to stick it in the garage. Yes, the engine has tappet noise, common on the N52 usually goes away when revved to 2500 for a few minutes. However, mine never sounded like that! MOT history is just about alright, no insurance write off but my gut instinct tells me to avoid it.
 
… yeah that si has been for sale for months.
Badly presented and sounding very rough. Shame as it’s a nice colour combo and low miles.
 
In real world terms you wont see any noticeable performance difference between the N52 and M54 - I had a manual N52 and a mate of mine (on here selling his E85 but its auto which is a shame!) has the M54 and when we go to meets and put our foot down one does in no way drive away from the other, you wouldnt be able to tell which is quickest.

The M54 seems marginally easier to work on, we both did the cam cover gaskets on our cars, his took 20 mins mine over an hour as you had over the cam wiring looms etc to deal with. There just seems to be physically a bit more access to the engine and peripherals on the M54.

Both engines sound ok as standard, my N52 had the back box mod with the baffles removed which made it sound a lot more aggressive.

To be honest, if you are buying it for a little while to keep NCB ticking over and occasional use, I would stick a few grand back in your pocket and take the pre facelift. And thats coming from someone who has had both the E85 and E86 facelifts.
 
This sounds like really sound advice...I just want something to keep the NCB ticking over for a while, that I won't lose loads of money on and can enjoy whilst I have it. It goes to show that a well looked after high mileage example will always win through on a low mileage poorly looked after example- this rang very true on TVRs too- higher mileage examples were often sought after as those engines needed regular running to stay in top condition and if looked after could go on forever- it sounds like the M54/N52 is the same.

I hadn't considered the 2.5i M54 engine, does that sound similar to the 3.0i M54? There's a cheap example below, which doesn't look like it'd lose a huge amount of money over the next couple of years:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202412087108574?sort=price-asc&searchId=eb29a601-73ae-450f-a600-8fe7a8ae891a&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&maximum-badge-engine-size=2.6&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.4&model=Z4&postcode=bs20%207ey&transmission=Manual&fromsra

Or an E89 looking really cheap....too cheap?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409244377564?sort=price-asc&searchId=eb29a601-73ae-450f-a600-8fe7a8ae891a&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&maximum-badge-engine-size=2.6&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.4&model=Z4&postcode=bs20%207ey&transmission=Manual&fromsra
 
With pre-facelift Zed's the 3.0i is the sport model with the 2.2 and 2.5 being the proper SE models even though they are all called SE's. Just pointing that out so you're aware and that the 3.0i is not just a bigger engine.
 
Blue one's MOT history is not good, rear subframe rust, probably surface, is rare. The E89 has higher mileage, and roof repairs can be expensive so check it works. This one is interesting, a rare colour, some do not like it! But a striking car. The hard top could be sold for £900 to bring the price down https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135283691146
 
Usel said:
With pre-facelift Zed's the 3.0i is the sport model with the 2.2 and 2.5 being the proper SE models even though they are all called SE's. Just pointing that out so you're aware and that the 3.0i is not just a bigger engine.
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What is the difference between the SE and Sport? I see the 3.0i has a sport button which sharpens up the steering and throttle but is there anything else that changes? I also see pre face-lift 3.0s being shown as SE?
 
Pre facelift only had SE, there was no sport version.

Facelift gives in sport guise a number of extras, the most important being the M sport seats which are soooo much better. Some other stuff like springs are M sport specific as well.
 
martduff5 said:
Usel said:
With pre-facelift Zed's the 3.0i is the sport model with the 2.2 and 2.5 being the proper SE models even though they are all called SE's. Just pointing that out so you're aware and that the 3.0i is not just a bigger engine.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between the SE and Sport? I see the 3.0i has a sport button which sharpens up the steering and throttle but is there anything else that changes? I also see pre face-lift 3.0s being shown as SE?
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The 3.0i has m-sport suspension. All pre-facelifts are denoted as SE.
 
Welcome to the forum and good luck with your search. :thumbsup:

The blue one you have posted a link to is a facelift 2.5i, which is about 40bhp down on a facelift 2.5Si and by all accounts there is no easy way of getting them back. So it's less powerful than a pre-facelift 2.5i which you may find a problem after a TVR!

The pre-facelift 2.5i also only had a 5 speed gearbox whereas the 3.0i and all the facelifts had a 6 speed which would make a difference on any Motorway trips.

As well as the great seats and lower, stiffer suspension the facelift Sport models also have an M-Sport steering wheel with a fatter rim. That Phoenix Yellow one with the hardtop looks great IMHO, but you might struggle to sell the hardtop as that is a really rare colour. Although a hardtop might be handy as the car will live on the street, although an E89 would be another alternative for that.
 
“I just want something to keep the NCB ticking over for a while, that I won't lose loads of money on and can enjoy whilst I have it.”

If I were you I would go test drive an early 2.5i before you decide you must have something else. In my opinion they are the sweet spot for value vs performance, as well as being reliable (if looked after) and easy to maintain. A well bought, well maintained example will not lose you money. They are cheap to insure although road tax is starting to hurt.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated and a lot to think through. I will give an early 2.5i some consideration, but in the meantime there are a couple of 3 litre options on eBay that have caught my eye:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315467866124?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8_wjluaett2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=LdNHwWVoQH6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126926220598?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fYg37m-cSX-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=LdNHwWVoQH6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Are the MOT histories on both cars anything to be concerned with? I keep seeing the following MOT failure description coming up on many Z4's:
"Engine MIL inoperative or indicates a malfunction (8.2.1.2 (h))"

It's such a shame this car isn't a 3 litre!
https://www.facebook.com/share/1FWx7cg3JV/
 
martduff5 said:
and in all honesty the main reason I'm looking to buy something is so I don't lose all my NCB which expires 2 years after not being used on a car.
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If that is your main reason, don't bother. The NCB is worth virtually nothing these days (especially if you have another car and another policy).
I just got a new policy with no NCB as I use my (20 odd years) on another car. The difference between no NCB and 20 years was about a fiver.

And you can 'protect' your NCB but it means nothing, realistically. In the event of a claim (fault or not), the premium will skyrocket no matter what.

Anyway, I digress. Welcome to the forum. :D
 
Pondrew said:
martduff5 said:
and in all honesty the main reason I'm looking to buy something is so I don't lose all my NCB which expires 2 years after not being used on a car.
Click to expand...

If that is your main reason, don't bother. The NCB is worth virtually nothing these days (especially if you have another car and another policy).
I just got a new policy with no NCB as I use my (20 odd years) on another car. The difference between no NCB and 20 years was about a fiver.

And you can 'protect' your NCB but it means nothing, realistically. In the event of a claim (fault or not), the premium will skyrocket no matter what.

Anyway, I digress. Welcome to the forum. :D
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The problem is my eldest isn't far from approaching driving age and I'm expecting going as a named driver on my policy will be far cheaper if the NCB is still there. And protecting that NCB with that young driver on the policy is probably a good idea! 🤣
 
martduff5 said:
The problem is my eldest isn't far from approaching driving age and I'm expecting going as a named driver on my policy will be far cheaper if the NCB is still there. And protecting that NCB with that young driver on the policy is probably a good idea! 🤣
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That could work out well. Put the policy in your name with your son as the main driver and in time he might be able to use the NCD on a policy in his own name.

In the meantime you get a bit of straight 6 two seater fun!
 
Mr Tidy said:
martduff5 said:
The problem is my eldest isn't far from approaching driving age and I'm expecting going as a named driver on my policy will be far cheaper if the NCB is still there. And protecting that NCB with that young driver on the policy is probably a good idea! 🤣
Click to expand...

That could work out well. Put the policy in your name with your son as the main driver and in time he might be able to use the NCD on a policy in his own name.

In the meantime you get a bit of straight 6 two seater fun!
Click to expand...

That's the plan! We have three kids within a 4 year period so I was hoping to use this spare set of NCB on a car for them, but not before I've enjoyed myself a bit!
 
Consistent advisories are evidence of a car not being looked after. Good owners fix their minor problems as soon as possible. It is not a deal-breaker but not a good sign. If you will get rid of the car in a couple of years, consider an MX5 NC. It does not have complex electronics. Much cheaper to run if you can find a rust-free example and easily sold on when the time comes.
 
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