For discussion...

[B21]

It could have been in the E85 section but not in the G29 section...

Apologies for the quality..couldn't find a better one..

 

[jock156]

Believe it or not, I have never driven an automatic

Opportunity has just never ever risen

 

[B21]

Believe it or not, I have never driven an automatic

Opportunity has just never ever risen

Like many things eg winter / all season tyes you can go your whole life not having the 'opportunity' to try these things and then as a result never know what you are missing..

Things were quiet on the Forum so I thought an agent provocateur post may liven it up...

Having gone on a journey of 4 speed, 4 speed and overdrive, 5 speed, 6 speed manual, 3 and 4 speed slush boxes, 5 speed semi slush boxes, 7 and 8 speed 3rd generation autos and 7 speeds double clutch I'm part of the way there, 4 wheel drive hybrid and 4 wheel drivr electric I've yet to try..

 

[brillomaster]

automatic for the daily, manual for weekend. can't beat a good DIY heel and toe downshift.

unless your weekend car is a racecar and you're chasing tenths, in which case, a semi automatic paddleshift is probably the ultimate choice.

 

[Mr Tidy]

Manual for me every time thanks.

I've had 4, 5 and 6 speed ones, but the only Autos I've had were old 3 or 4 speed ones, and the newest was from 1985!

I'm sure if I was still commuting and tried a modern Auto I might well have a different view.

 

[flybobbie]

23i manual is posted as quicker than the auto to 60mph.

But i suspect not my Zed's gearbox!

 

[tiglon]

The 35is is my first automatic. It's now my only car (I don't have to drive to work or shops, so only used once or twice a week) and the auto is so SO much better for the boring journeys.

I'd only choose to go back to manual in a 2nd car that was for fun only.

 

[B21]

The 35is is my first automatic. It's now my only car (I don't have to drive to work or shops, so only used once or twice a week) and the auto is so SO much better for the boring journeys.

I'd only choose to go back to manual in a 2nd car that was for fun only.

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

 

[B21]

23i manual is posted as quicker than the auto to 60mph.

But i suspect not my Zed's gearbox!

That was due to the slower shift on the ZF6HP box compared to its later ZF8HP box which was 6 times faster....

 

[tiglon]

The 35is is my first automatic. It's now my only car (I don't have to drive to work or shops, so only used once or twice a week) and the auto is so SO much better for the boring journeys.

I'd only choose to go back to manual in a 2nd car that was for fun only.

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

:rofl: there is a rather grey area in the definition here.
"Automated manual" would perhaps be the most accurate description of DCT.

The latest definition of automatic transmission is often stated as per your description, but without the mention of torque converter at the end, so it would include DCT.

 

[B21]

The 35is is my first automatic. It's now my only car (I don't have to drive to work or shops, so only used once or twice a week) and the auto is so SO much better for the boring journeys.

I'd only choose to go back to manual in a 2nd car that was for fun only.

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

:rofl: there is a rather grey area in the definition here.
"Automated manual" would perhaps be the most accurate description of DCT.

The latest definition of automatic transmission is often stated as per your description, but without the mention of torque converter at the end, so it would include DCT.

To be pedantic..yes i know... your description refers to the E85 SMG gearbox

https://eng.kaps.cz/bmw-smg-gearbox-1011

That was an automated manual gearbox with a single 'normal' dry clutch and a robbie robot mechanical automation..not one of BMW's greatest achievements, apparently.

The DCT is essentially two complete gearboxes in parallel..one with 1,3,5,7 in it and the other with 2,4,6 each with their own wet clutch..

One of the 'weaknesses' of the DCT box is when shifting down it has to go through the gears (unlike a pure manually operated box) so 7-6-5-4-3-2-1 albeit very quickly..

The later ZF8HP fitted to the 18/20i/28i can do several cvlever tricks..such going from 8-2 in one go..

Once they coud make it handle the torque of cars like the B58 engine it obsoleted the DCT..hence why DCTs don't exist on many cars these days..

 

[Mr Tidy]

The later ZF8HP fitted to the 18/20i/28i can do several cvlever tricks..such going from 8-2 in one go..

Once they coud make it handle the torque of cars like the B58 engine it obsoleted the DCT..hence why DCTs don't exist on many cars these days..

Based on that I like the idea of the ZF8HP much more than the DCT!

I often miss out a gear or two in my MC. Usually because I've got way past the speed limit accelerating in 2nd or 3rd, but also decelerating because dropping from 6th to 5th doesn't make that big a difference.

 

[biZ4rreMids]

From my experience the ZF8HP gearbox coupled to a remapped 20i with over 450nm of torque was sublime. Having said that, I much prefer the greater driver involvement offered by a manual gearbox equipped sports car.

 

[sars]

The 35is is my first automatic. It's now my only car (I don't have to drive to work or shops, so only used once or twice a week) and the auto is so SO much better for the boring journeys.

I'd only choose to go back to manual in a 2nd car that was for fun only.

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

:rofl: there is a rather grey area in the definition here.
"Automated manual" would perhaps be the most accurate description of DCT.

The latest definition of automatic transmission is often stated as per your description, but without the mention of torque converter at the end, so it would include DCT.

You are both mistaken, according to OED, Automatic:
Of a machine, appliance, etc.: that does not require an operator; that works by itself under fixed conditions, with little or no direct human control. Thus a torque converter type or DCT/DSG typ is an automatic, because they require that little or no human control requirement.

and for Manual:
Of work, an action, a skill, etc.: of or relating to the hand or hands; done or performed with the hands; involving physical rather than mental actions.

and thus there can not be an automatic manual, because that is contradictory, an automated manual transmission however......

 

[tiglon]

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

:rofl: there is a rather grey area in the definition here.
"Automated manual" would perhaps be the most accurate description of DCT.

The latest definition of automatic transmission is often stated as per your description, but without the mention of torque converter at the end, so it would include DCT.

You are both mistaken, according to OED, Automatic:
Of a machine, appliance, etc.: that does not require an operator; that works by itself under fixed conditions, with little or no direct human control. Thus a torque converter type or DCT/DSG typ is an automatic, because they require that little or no human control requirement.

and for Manual:
Of work, an action, a skill, etc.: of or relating to the hand or hands; done or performed with the hands; involving physical rather than mental actions.

and thus there can not be an automatic manual, because that is contradictory, an automated manual transmission however......

I did type automated manual

 

[sars]

[ref]tiglon[/ref], I humbly apologise sir

 

[tiglon]

[ref]tiglon[/ref], I humbly apologise sir

I magnanimously accept

 

[Pondrew]

Well I am in for the market for a new car (again).
The weapon of choice is an Audrey, which have the best (!) double clutch autos of any manufacturer (VAG did invent them after all).
But I want a manual. These are proving difficult to find but of the few available they are much cheaper than the equivalent auto. So a win-win for me (until sale time).

I have had a few autos over the past few years; from a bloody awful CVT, a ZF6 (not a fan) to a ZF8, but never a DCG. I thought I wanted to try one, but they are still automatics, doesn't matter how many clutches they have. I just don't like automatics, except for those (now very rare thankfully) times of being stuck on the M25 for miles in stop-start traffic.

I presume once the EV fully takes over, there will be no need for a gearbox at all. Just 'twist and go'!

 

[B21]

Ahem its not an automatic its a double clutch gearbox..

Automatic being defined as a gearbox with multiple ratios operated without manual intervention with a torque converter..

Double clutch gearbox aka BMW DCT uses clutches not torque converter..

Obtuse but at one time important distinction.. :tumbleweed: :rofl:

:rofl: there is a rather grey area in the definition here.
"Automated manual" would perhaps be the most accurate description of DCT.

The latest definition of automatic transmission is often stated as per your description, but without the mention of torque converter at the end, so it would include DCT.

You are both mistaken, according to OED, Automatic:
Of a machine, appliance, etc.: that does not require an operator; that works by itself under fixed conditions, with little or no direct human control. Thus a torque converter type or DCT/DSG typ is an automatic, because they require that little or no human control requirement.

and for Manual:
Of work, an action, a skill, etc.: of or relating to the hand or hands; done or performed with the hands; involving physical rather than mental actions.

and thus there can not be an automatic manual, because that is contradictory, an automated manual transmission however......

Sars,

Since this was a specific discussion about E89 and E85 cars my terminology was based on what BMW calls their transmissions ..not a generalised catch all definition…

So ZF6HP and ZF8HP are called auto gearboxes , the DCT is called a twin clutch gearbox and the SMG is called a manual gear box

 

[sars]

[ref]B21[/ref], If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck & quacks like a duck, it's a duck! You can call it a Mallard but it's still a duck oke: