HID headlight Conversertion- Your Thoughts

Hi all

I am just toying with this idea at the moment, mainly due to a mate of mine with MX-5, who has just converted his side beams to HID, got to say after going out with him in his car the other night, the results are very impressive, no scatter of beam as I had been lead to believe, and very focused.

So I did a internet search, and this is where it gets interesting, there is a great deal of "no! they are not legal" when asked the question, mainly on other forums, but then there are loads of people saying "I have had them for a couple of years no problem, passed MOT etc" and loads of sites selling them saying they are 100% legal.

The goverments view is this,


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps


Which if I understand right, says you can not just upgrade a Halogen lamp, but if you upgrade the headlight system it is (not necessarily the whole headlight), the only thing it says it must have a washer system (no prob there) and self leveling (would that mean headlight adjusters, as in the standard ones?)

Some of these kits are very reasonable know, and I appreciate you have to find out the differences between a £90 kit and a £200 one,

Just interested in your thoughts about this really.

The self-levellers are different and are connected to the suspension I believe, to prevent you blinding oncoming cars every time you go over a bump. That makes it a much more complex job to do properly.

I will probably get slated for saying this but i say go for it - they will be illegal without auto self levelers (and washers which isnt a problem) but aslong as you keep a decent colour temp - 4.3 or 6k then you shouldnt attact unwanted attention from the plod.

I had some in my old Toyota Celica (cheapo £90 ebay kit) - and it lit the road up much better then my OEM HID's in my Z4 and S2k - and i passed 2 mot's with them (started with 8k which looked stupid and were very poor, and then went to 4.3k)

If you have a search on the forum it's been covered, but your answer is in the first line of the link...

OK so loads of people tell you they passed an MOT. Sure loads speed and get away with it, but doesn't make it legal.

The beam scatter will depend on the type of light reflector and the method used to focus it. In simple terms the standard xenon bulb is much longer than a halogen and in the Zed is not in the correct spot to focus.

The self levelling as lacroupade notes is a pair of sensors on front ansd rear suspension that compensate for load and bumps by adjusting the beam height. Not the same as the manual adjustment wheel on the light switch and not the same as the reset cylce all Zed lights go through on start up.

My advice is either do it properly with xenon units, sensors and a reprogramme or stick to brighter halogen bulbs.

It's not something I'd do, just because I couldn't be arsed to, but as far as wether it brakes the law or not? Loads of people have done it already and it's just one of those laws most people couldn't give a monkeys about.

I bet there's not a person on here who hasn't broken a law eveynow and then. Driving over the speed limit anyone? So soap boxes are not needed oke:

Several of my cars have passed MOT's with aftermarket HID jobbies.

I have them in my Z4 now. The projector headlights as standard ensure the right legal beam pattern is produced. No matter what people say... you get more illumination and dont blind any oncoming traffic. (in my experience and on MOT testing results)

Mine were £50 from ebay, though a UK supplier. 6k colour temperature. Look fantastic and the illumination is brilliant.

Some people will bang on about "but there is no self levelling" or "if your gonna do it, buy the whole OEM kit" etc. Technically they have a point, but in the real world.... just get an aftermarket kit, you wont be dissapointed. IMO you would have to be a bit silly or have too much money to spend ££££ on OEM gear when £50 will do the job.

Get it done would be my advice!

Right, here goes. Wasn't sure about posting. I've kept rather quiet about these so far as some people are not in favour of HIDs as a sensible upgrade on Z4's, but hear me out...

My name is Ally, and I'm a HID-aholic. There, I've said it

I was undecided about installing a HID setup but after a lot of research I found that same article RustyZ4 links to above regarding their legality. I decided that although illegal, the chances of being stopped or advised to remove them are slim-to-none so I bought a HID kit from a reputable company (see link below). I would NOT buy from some random on ebay. Also, the "projector" type lens on the Z4 lends itself best to HID conversions far better than regular clear headlamps with old-style reflectors (I'd never suggest fitting HIDs to that style).

My reason for buying them isn't to "look cool" or achieve a JDM look (which is what most of the idiots with badly adjusted, very blue-coloured HIDs seem to want). My reason is SAFETY. The utter shiteness of the halogen headlights is scary: even with +80% Philips Xtreme bulbs fitted, the dipped beam was dangerously poor and causing me to slow down during night driving (I'm talking far lower than legal speeds). They way I view it, i'm safer to EVERYONE if I have better headlights to illuminate the road ahead.

My remaining concern is the lack of self-levelling and is not something that can be cheaply resolved. I've taken as much precaution as possible to ensure I don't dazzle anyone: lots of testing along uneven roads, up hills and over crests - all with my wife in her car in front of me or coming towards me to check for dazzling. We even swapped cars (not that I don't trust here!) and I got to observe my Z4 being driven by her as she followed me and drove past me. Obviously very unscientific, but I've done what I can to ensure I remain safe to others. I also had the headlamps realigned at an MOT station to be sure. I don't have the self-levelling to control the beam over bumps, etc so they are technically illegal despite having headlamp washers on my Z4.

I bought a 50w HID converion kit from HIDs Direct. Extremely easy to fit, excellent quality of manufacture, even spread of light with no dark spots, and reassuringly expensive compared to a lot of ebay kits (£75 posted). I chose the 4300k colour bulbs as they're brightest but are also the same colour as OEM BMW xenons. The bulb units are no longer than the H7 halogens I removed, so shouldn't have affected the beam pattern. What they do do is produce much more light: around 3x more lumens than a normal 55w halogen bulb. Fitting involves drilling a 20mm hole in the plastic rear light cover and chopping into the headlamp wiring and soldering (or scotchlocking) on the new bulb holder) so it's completely reversible if required.

I fitted them a few weeks ago and have done a lot of night driving since, and I can't recommend the HIDs Direct ones enough.

Hope this helps the OP or anyone else with halogen headlamps. The +80% Philips bulbs are better than standard and you can improve things by adjusting the height of the beam using the under-bonnet adjusters, but those improvements are minor compared to the improvement this HID kit has made to my headlamps

Ally

I have had a few cars behind me on the motorway with HID's and in non projector headlight - (such as MK4 Golfs and E36 BMW's) those are damn blinding - thankfully my internal mirror autodims.

However i would be very curious to see how effective aftermarket HID kits would be in a Z4 - i am rather disappointed with the performance of my OEM ones.

aquazi said:

I have had a few cars behind me on the motorway with HID's and in non projector headlight - (such as MK4 Golfs and E36 BMW's) those are damn blinding - thankfully my internal mirror autodims.

However i would be very curious to see how effective aftermarket HID kits would be in a Z4 - i am rather disappointed with the performance of my OEM ones.

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Having been in a Z4 with xenons I agree with you. My guess is that the low headlamp height caused by the low front end of the car, is to blame. A higher-mounted headlamp in a "regular" car will project further down the road. For example, the headlamps in my VW van aren't great compared to cars but they're still better than a halogen-equipped Z4 due to where the headlamps are mounted.

I went through this exact scenario with my old car.. I had standard halogen lights (or ditch finders as I used to call them), so decided to opt for HID conversion.

I must say that the illumination of the roads were far superior to the standard Xenons on my Z4, so much so Im considering upgrading my bulbs to the same as I had in my old car. Do you think this will make much difference?

See thread http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12933

Cheers guys

Are people with halogen replacing with HID for low-beam or full-beam, or both?!

Dave

Hi All,

I thought id put in my 2p's worth. My Zed had standard Halogens in when i bought it. I read various posts about HID kits not being Legal etc.. and I decided to buy a set anyway. I bought the 6000k kit from HIDs direct and fitted them and aligned them to the same beam markings that the halogens made.

Was very impressed but ended up buying 5000k bulbs (didnt need to change ballast) which were a bit less blue and seemed to be the same as the standard BMW issue HIDs.

It appears that the Light projector and glass are identical anyway between Xenon and Non-Xenon versions as you will see in the glass it says "H2/D2R".

The main issue people who object to HIDs have is the lack of the self levelling feature, the fact is that ive had it a year and in that time never had the car fully loaded and never been flashed for them being too bright. Ive followed people who have said that the HIDs weren't dazzling, the only time you really notice the beam rise is when you accellerate hard but this is very brief and I doubt the self levelling could adapt quick enough to this anyway.

Mr Whippy said:

Are people with halogen replacing with HID for low-beam or full-beam, or both?!

Dave

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I just replaced the dipped beam as this is what I have issues with. But I moved my +80% Philips bulbs previously in use for the dipped beam across into the full-beam position.

Not sure if HIDs are suitable for full beam as they take 30secs or so to warm up to full power, so wouldn't be any good for quickly changing from dipped to full and vice versa. No idea how bi-xenons manage this though as even the OEM xenons on my old Clio (dipped only) weren't instantaneously at full power...

g14ash said:

It appears that the Light projector and glass are identical anyway between Xenon and Non-Xenon versions as you will see in the glass it says "H2/D2R".

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Interesting about the light stamp. I guess it will depend upon the position of the bulb within the headlight case. After seeing the original post I mailed the DfT in reference to the PDF, abstract below:

"It says that lights must have lamp washers and self levelling. The confusing thing, how come so many people are able to sell HID conversion kits, claiming to include everything but without the washers and levelling kits?

Also, will these be picked up on the MOT test? What measure of enforcement is there for running a car with an HID kit?"

Response (question about MOT not answered):

DfT – Transport Technology and Standards said:

Thank you for your enquiry regarding HID headlamps.

Please find attached a fact sheet on Aftermarket HID headlamps.

The legislation governing the use of lights on vehicles is the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended (RVLR). The regulations set out the lighting requirements for all road vehicles, including trailers. The RVLR can be read on the internet at: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_1.htm
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended (RVLR) prescribe the fitment and use of lights on vehicles. Under Regulation 27 of the RVLR it is prohibited to use a headlamp which causes undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.

A vehicle can only be fitted with a HID headlamp if it was type approved for use with an HID light source. Modifying an existing headlamp to accept an HID light source is not permitted. HID lamps are more powerful than filament lamps and so they need to be correctly aimed to prevent dazzle. Cars are also required to have automatic systems to adjust the aim to take into account the load. As far as the Department is concerned the headlamps must be approved for use with HID bulbs, automatic headlamp levelling should be provided and headlamp washing. If the headlamps have been approved for use with approved HID bulbs then they can be fitted provided washing and auto levelling is also fitted. Manual headlamp levelling by a switch in the car is not sufficient. Cars with self levelling suspension are considered to be fitted with automatic headlamp levelling.

HID light sources will be approved as DxR or DxS (where x is a number between 1 and 4). A HID bulb with any other designation will not be approved to the European regulations and cannot be fitted in a headlamp. H7 bulbs are not HID they use an incandescent filament so any H7 bulb sold as a HID unit will not be approved and cannot be fitted.

Enforcement of road traffic law is an operational matter for individual Chief Police Officers and their officers can issue verbal warnings, fixed penalty notices or report the motorist for formal prosecution.

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Personally I am pleased to see that those members who have done this are at least testing the results! The upgrade is not uncommon either - I know this is a very popular upgrade for 911s, up to 996 at least.

a11y said:

Having been in a Z4 with xenons I agree with you. My guess is that the low headlamp height caused by the low front end of the car, is to blame. A higher-mounted headlamp in a "regular" car will project further down the road. For example, the headlamps in my VW van aren't great compared to cars but they're still better than a halogen-equipped Z4 due to where the headlamps are mounted.

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My S200k has OEM HID's and they were better then the Z4, and the front of that is actually lower. I think its the general BMW design, as even my my mothers E60 with the clever lights which apparently turn based on the steering appear to be no more effective then the Z4.

g14ash said:

The main issue people who object to HIDs have is the lack of the self levelling feature, the fact is that ive had it a year and in that time never had the car fully loaded and never been flashed for them being too bright. Ive followed people who have said that the HIDs weren't dazzling, the only time you really notice the beam rise is when you accellerate hard but this is very brief and I doubt the self levelling could adapt quick enough to this anyway.

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I think the auto self levelling actually adjusts within miliseconds as my gf refers to them as "dancing lights" when i have been following her as they are constantly moving.

Thanks for the input guys ,

So it seems the projector headlamps are basically well suited to the HID's and as g14ash said they are the same headlights as the Xenon oem (i went out and had a look ) the issue seems to be self levelling, as for breaking the law, well, what can I say, I ride a bike with a tinted visor on in the sunshine and an exhaust that says "not for road use" stamped on it, although to be fair the exhaust has to come of for MOT time.

I do like to know its totally reversible,

I will have a serious think about this,

To be honest if it was not for CJ's valued opinion (im not grovelling, it just that after reading a lot of his input here on the Z4, his knowledge is second to none) I would not be thinking about it.

a11y said:

Mr Whippy said:

Are people with halogen replacing with HID for low-beam or full-beam, or both?!

Dave

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I just replaced the dipped beam as this is what I have issues with. But I moved my +80% Philips bulbs previously in use for the dipped beam across into the full-beam position.

Not sure if HIDs are suitable for full beam as they take 30secs or so to warm up to full power, so wouldn't be any good for quickly changing from dipped to full and vice versa. No idea how bi-xenons manage this though as even the OEM xenons on my old Clio (dipped only) weren't instantaneously at full power...

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The xenon Z4 uses halogens still for flashed full-beam, while normal full beam simply moves the flap on the dipped-beam projectors.

Halogen = projector for dipped, seperate reflector for full.
Xenon = projector for dipped and full beam using a flap that moves, and then seperate reflector and halogen for full.


As for halogen being a bit crap, they are a bit on the Z4. I think because BMW offered xenon, they didn't try as hard with halogen. My wife has a Ford Cougar with the same kinda height headlamps, and halogens (no xenon offer), and they are still better than my 90% halogens with beams pointed up, haha!

Some cars just have pants headlights. The Z4's are generally not as nice as some it seems.


I'd just save up for the bits and do the proper upgrade for ~ £500 (after old parts sold), than fart around with all that other stuff. Sounds like a good kit is £200, and even then it's not ideal due to bulb positioning)
At least then you add to it's resale potential a bit, rather than possibly hurt it (they do look tattier than OEM, and a bit odd when the LCM still looks halogen etc)
My work colleagues first Z4 had xenon upgrades and to be honest I couldn't tell much vs good upgraded halogen (what I have) only the bluer light giving it away obviously, but the second one he had it was obvious they were better again. Maybe a bad kit? I dunno

Dave

Well this thread has generated a lot of feedback and that's great as it gives those considering it a lot of comment to make an informed decision based upon price, performance and various risk factors.

Maybe I missed something, but frankly I don't really care about how bright my dipped is. I'm usually on a well lit main, dual, motorway under such circumstances. When I really like them is on a unlit rural roads with main, where the xenon is simply awesome compared to that crappy 55w halogen in the inner refloctor. In fact I often have to dip as the reflection from roadsigns is so great ...lol

Mr Whippy said:

I'd just save up for the bits and do the proper upgrade for ~ £500 (after old parts sold), than fart around with all that other stuff. Sounds like a good kit is £200, and even then it's not ideal due to bulb positioning)
At least then you add to it's resale potential a bit, rather than possibly hurt it (they do look tattier than OEM, and a bit odd when the LCM still looks halogen etc)

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Dave, my kit - I proper quality one - was "only" £75, and has s the correct bulb positioning. That isn't that much more than a pair of uprated halogen bulbs (~£25) or from another POV, a LOT cheaper than a xenon retrofit. I do have a niggling worry about resale time, but as I said earlier it's completely reversible to remove the kit (plus I don't intend selling for years, I love this car ).

cj10jeeper said:

Well this thread has generated a lot of feedback and that's great as it gives those considering it a lot of comment to make an informed decision based upon price, performance and various risk factors.

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I was tempted to completely blank this thread as previous threads on HIDs haven't been great for discussion, but I too feel this thread has been good

cj10jeeper said:

Maybe I missed something, but frankly I don't really care about how bright my dipped is. I'm usually on a well lit main, dual, motorway under such circumstances. When I really like them is on a unlit rural roads with main, where the xenon is simply awesome compared to that crappy 55w halogen in the inner refloctor. In fact I often have to dip as the reflection from roadsigns is so great ...lol

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Ah, my driving is completely different to yours. I guess it's just an effect of having a far greater percentage of unlit A- and B-roads up here in the dark ages up here in Scotland - not even all dual carriageways and motorways are lit! I lot of my driving is on unlit roads A- and B-roads, and with local authorities seemingly limited resources and lack of lane marking paint or catseyes, it's bloody hard to see where you're going on some roads where you've got to use dipped with halogens!

The final straw for me was hitting the mother of all potholes on a main, unlit dual carriageway (the A80 at Cumbernauld for local folk) and the shock/shudder that went through the car. I didn't even see the pothole, and that's unusual as I'm continually scanning the road surface for potholes to dodge...