Brake Pipes & System Refurbishment

C

cj10jeeper

Lifer
 Lichfield, England
OK so I'm enjoying a spot of garden leave and decided to get a few long term jobs on the Zed done.

Ready for next week we have transmission fluid change and rear diff oil change. There's a bi-annual brake fluid change due too, so plenty to keep me busy :)

Before then the MOT is coming up on Friday and with an advisory on the rear brake pipes last year it's touch and go if it'll pass. Although I had it up in the air found nothing out of the ordinary on them aside a bit of surface grime, but gave them a clean and grease up my inclination is to do a rear end refurbishment either forced if it fails the MOT, or at leisure if not.

My thinking is to do swap out of all flexis to braided stainless at the same time as replacing all pipes from somewhere rear of the front bulkhead.

Would therefore welcome comments on the following 4 areas:

1) Does anyone have a link to a complete set of braided hoses for the Z4. A few I've seen on a quick search seemed to do part sets but not all.

2) Since I hate shoddy work on pipes are there any suppliers of pre-shaped pipes with correct unions for the Zed (aside dealers)?

3) if no to 2, then I may make my own, but uncertain of the correct set up of flares and the thread patterns for the various unions?

4) Any pointers to a supplier for the various unions and connectors. Seems a shame to fit new rigids and flexis with 12 year old connectors in the line.

Thanks in advance for any pointers and off the back of this although no really difficult I may create a 'rear end pipe refresh how to'.
 
Hi,

I did the rear pipes myself last year, spliced in half way along the body underneath a long plastic cover, flares are DIN/ISO bubble flare, pipe is 4.75mm ,I bought the unions 10mm x1.0mm on Ebay, got everything else online....copper/nickel (Cunifer) pipes and flaring tool.

I was thinking the same way as you before I started... I wanted pre-formed pipes from BMW, the price wasn't too bad but after some research found out that the dealers fit the cheapest pipes available (steel) and (Cunifer) copper/zinc out lasts and out performs steel.

Don't skimp on the flaring tool or it'll be a nightmare, I paid about €120 for the tool which included a bending tool and a pipe cutter , it was Sykes-Pickavant.

I just removed the pipe and copied it on the bench and installed the new piping back in, not so easy if you plan on replacing in one piece !

Good luck :)
 
Excellent set of pointers - thanks
Interesting comment on the preformed dealer pipes being lower quality. That def pushes me to make my own and as you did, bench bend to match.

Planned to splice in same pace as you did, having removed the cover and seen the pipes as new under that and forward.

Good point on the quality of the tool. I've always invested in good tools as they work so much better.

Best get my eBay searches going for the parts :)

Still need comments from someone on the braded flexible hose.
 
I had braided SS hoses fitted earlier this year, cj10jeeper. Let me dig out the invoice at the weekend and I'll provide the details.
I didn't replace any pipes as mine were in surprisingly good nick!
 
Hi,
HEL will make you a set of S/S flexi hoses to whatever length you wish including fittings. I think I paid around £50 and they turned them around in less than a week, this included having one of the fittings turned down 1.5mm ( The end that passes thru the bracket on the chassis), excellent service!
Stu.

Edit - Just found E-Mail invoice if it's any help

Product Quantity Unit price Subtotal
Create Your Custom Brake Hose
Code: CUSTOM

Options: Fitting 1: Swivel Circlip Female M10 x 1.00 , Fitting 1 Angle: Straight , Fitting 2: Swivel Male M10 x 1.00 , Fitting 2 Angle: Straight , Support 1: Bobbin Grommet , Support 2: Circlip Small Nut , Colour: Red , Ferrules: No , Length: 700mm 2 £24.95 £49.90
HEL Hose Retaining Clips
Code: HRC
4 £0.45 £1.80
Subtotal: £51.70
Taxes:
VAT 20% included (GB912910544): £8.62
shipping cost: £0.00
Total: £51.70
Notes:
Please can you turn down the O.D portion of the female circlip swivel's to 14mm (
As arranged with Ollie this morning via phone) too alow it to pass thru exisiting chassis
brackets.
Thanks.
Stuart.
 
cj10jeeper said:
Excellent set of pointers - thanks
Interesting comment on the preformed dealer pipes being lower quality. That def pushes me to make my own and as you did, bench bend to match.

Planned to splice in same pace as you did, having removed the cover and seen the pipes as new under that and forward.

Good point on the quality of the tool. I've always invested in good tools as they work so much better.

Best get my eBay searches going for the parts :)

Still need comments from someone on the braded flexible hose.
Click to expand...

Hi Cj,

when I connected to the steel pipes under the cover I installed a male union, flared the steel pipe and used a connector to connect to the Cunifer pipe as I was concerned about disimilar metal corrrosion and wanted to keep the 2 different pipes separated !

I also bought a small pipe cutter as the steel pipe has to be flexed down away from the body to cut it...so small is better= less flexing of the pipe and less removal of the pipe from the retaining clips forward of the cut !

It also means once the bubble flare is done the the connector can be installed with a cap to prevent more Br. fluid loss while making the rest of the pipes !

One other note, I only did the left side as this failed the NCT, the right side is a pig ! so I'll wait for that to fail the NCT first ! :)
 
Guys - 3 great pieces of information above to log on and find :)

Mark - details of the supplier would be very useful :thumbsup:

Stupot - that's great - love being able to replicate the order as it saves time and gets things right :thumbsup:

Fixit man - I planned on the same method of flex and cut. Already have an excellent miniature pipe cutter, so that works well. Not too worried about fluid loss (aside the mess) as I'd do a full fluid change anyway, but cut, flare fitting and cap makes sense :thumbsup:
Agree re N/S vs O/S as threading over the petrol tank looks interesting :(

MoT is Friday so won't even be ordering much before then and existing is valid to mid August so have time to plan and prepare.
 
Well the MOT was passed this morning :)
Strangely an advisory of lightly corroded on the front to rear brake pipe, despite last years being on the rear pipes and this year they being 'perfect' when I asked him??? Guess me cleaning them and lightly greasing made a massive difference..

Gives me a little more time to plan a complete pipework and hoses refresh with a 12 month MOT in hand.
 
Update on this and thanks to those who provided information.

Went with HEL braided hoses, roll of conifer tubing, bag of connectors and a litre of DOT4. Added in a top end Sykes Pickavant flaring kit and hand held pipe bender and all it then needed was a day's work..

Front hoses straight forward enough, just needed to do a quick change between fluid drips

Rear was a little more tricky working around the fuel tank, crafting shaped pipes and splicing in mid way along the car. Had 700mm HEL hoses on the rear thus eliminating the mix of 2 hoses and a short pipe run on each side.

Tip - I used the defunct fume pipe that runs across the car and simply threaded the left to right brake pipe inside it. That eliminated issues of getting access to the clamps to fix the new pipe.

Way too oily to take pictures doing this, but have one

EDIT - 1 picture of the handiwork where the 2 new pipes come around the fuel tank. RHS crosses the car. LHS does a 180 turn into the new hose.
IMG_4621.jpg
 
cj10jeeper said:
Well the MOT was passed this morning :)
Strangely an advisory of lightly corroded on the front to rear brake pipe, despite last years being on the rear pipes and this year they being 'perfect' when I asked him??? Guess me cleaning them and lightly greasing made a massive difference..
Click to expand...

This doesn't surprise me.. I had my car FAIL an MOT on "excessive corrosion to brakeline".
Not believing this could be the case considering there was zero corrosion the previous year, and it'd been locked in thegarage for 9 months, I got it up on the jack, wiped all the road salt and other winter grime from the perfect pipes and took it back for a retest the very next day.
Guy commented that I had done an excellent job replacing the pipes so quickly... :headbang:
 
cj10jeeper said:
Update on this and thanks to those who provided information.

Went with HEL braided hoses, roll of conifer tubing, bag of connectors and a litre of DOT4. Added in a top end Sykes Pickavant flaring kit and hand held pipe bender and all it then needed was a day's work..

Front hoses straight forward enough, just needed to do a quick change between fluid drips

Rear was a little more tricky working around the fuel tank, crafting shaped pipes and splicing in mid way along the car. Had 700mm HEL hoses on the rear thus eliminating the mix of 2 hoses and a short pipe run on each side.

Tip - I used the defunct fume pipe that runs across the car and simply threaded the left to right brake pipe inside it. That eliminated issues of getting access to the clamps to fix the new pipe.

Way too oily to take pictures doing this, but have one

EDIT - 1 picture of the handiwork where the 2 new pipes come around the fuel tank. RHS crosses the car. LHS does a 180 turn into the new hose.
IMG_4621.jpg
Click to expand...

Sorry to be a bit dense, but is the red pipe the HEL Braided Hose and does it run direct from the connection shown in the photo to the caliper. My local INDY has just replaced the centre pipe runs (MOT fail) and I've said to leave the rear pipes/hoses until I can seek guidance from the Forum. TIA, Martyn
 
Yes the red pipe is re HEL hose in the rear NS

Factory uses 2 flexibles each side and a short length of rigid pipe between them. Based upon comments made on forum I opted to create custom 720mm hoses with all the appropriate grommets and bobbins to follow the oem pipe route and eliminate the rigid pipe and all the extra connections and indeed costs.

What you see in the photo is the end it mates near the fuel tank. Other end is the caliper.
 
stupot67 said:
Hi,
HEL will make you a set of S/S flexi hoses to whatever length you wish including fittings. I think I paid around £50 and they turned them around in less than a week, this included having one of the fittings turned down 1.5mm ( The end that passes thru the bracket on the chassis), excellent service!
Stu.

Edit - Just found E-Mail invoice if it's any help

Product Quantity Unit price Subtotal
Create Your Custom Brake Hose
Code: CUSTOM

Options: Fitting 1: Swivel Circlip Female M10 x 1.00 , Fitting 1 Angle: Straight , Fitting 2: Swivel Male M10 x 1.00 , Fitting 2 Angle: Straight , Support 1: Bobbin Grommet , Support 2: Circlip Small Nut , Colour: Red , Ferrules: No , Length: 700mm 2 £24.95 £49.90
HEL Hose Retaining Clips
Code: HRC
4 £0.45 £1.80
Subtotal: £51.70
Taxes:
VAT 20% included (GB912910544): £8.62
shipping cost: £0.00
Total: £51.70
Notes:
Please can you turn down the O.D portion of the female circlip swivel's to 14mm (
As arranged with Ollie this morning via phone) too alow it to pass thru exisiting chassis
brackets.
Thanks.
Stuart.
Click to expand...

Hi Stuart, I'm not too practical (particularly with brake pipes) so would like to simply ride on the back of your work. Did your order above contain all the necessary bits to simply replace the existing BMW brake pipes between the front to rear pipes and the calipers? My local guy has replaced the front to rears today but needs to order the outer rear brake pipes from BMW so I've told him to hold on until I can consult the Forum. I'm happy to place the order with HEL but don't want to give him two 700mm braided S/S flexible pipes that won't just connect to the remainder of the system. I hope you can make sense of my question. TIA. Martyn
 
cj10jeeper said:
Yes the red pipe is re HEL hose in the rear NS

Factory uses 2 flexibles each side and a short length of rigid pipe between them. Based upon comments made on forum I opted to create custom 720mm hoses with all the appropriate grommets and bobbins to follow the oem pipe route and eliminate the rigid pipe and all the extra connections and indeed costs.

What you see in the photo is the end it mates near the fuel tank. Other end is the caliper.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.
 
It's Stuart's detail as he's just posted that I used as my shopping list - it was perfect :)
Chose a few minor changes to my preference such as heat shrink on the ferrules also did the front flecks at the same time.

My recommendation is to go to 720mm rear as my measurements were exact point to point and in discussion with HEL they advised tonger not under on length and glad I did as the lie is perfect.

I also opted not to have the fittings turned down but dremmeled out the brackets by a mm. You're choice.

Don't forget you'll need 4 of the HEL fitting clamps for the rear.
 
cj10jeeper said:
It's Stuart's detail as he's just posted that I used as my shopping list - it was perfect :)
Chose a few minor changes to my preference such as heat shrink on the ferrules also did the front flecks at the same time.

My recommendation is to go to 720mm rear as my measurements were exact point to point and in discussion with HEL they advised tonger not under on length and glad I did as the lie is perfect.

I also opted not to have the fittings turned down but dremmeled out the brackets by a mm. You're choice.

Don't forget you'll need 4 of the HEL fitting clamps for the rear.
Click to expand...
Thanks again. :)
 
Placed order with HEL today (incl the 4 HRCs) and at 720mm long. Will feedback with a couple of photos in due course. Thanks for help.
 
Hi cj, received my HEL tubes and clips today, they look great. How do the clips fit? Do you or anybody else have any photos of the tubes and HRCs fitted? TIA.
 
Glad you like the look. They do seem a quality product.
Can't help with pictures as I'm in Spain.
The hose goes through the brackets then the clips are just tapped into place to lock the ferrule to the bracket.
Better than the BMW version that uses the union to tension it in place.
Trickiest is the bobbin clamp that you have to undo from the suspension arm and then clamp in.
I suggest loose fit everything first to ensure correct alignment, no twists or stressed hose when cycled lock to lock.
 
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