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2.5i, 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Discuss problems you have had or are having with your Z4
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srhutch
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2.5i, 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:25 pm

This post is to make owners of 2.5i, 2.5si and 3.0si Z4's about a known issue with the N52 engine (so also affects 3 Series etc) and the HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters)

I have collected my car today from the dealer after having a complete new Cylinder head and internals replaced at a cost of over £3400 (Luckily under Warranty).

The issue is that when starting the car from cold that the Hydraulic Valve Adjusters do not fill with oil as required making the car sound like a very bad diesel or Trabant. I have been able to drive 2-3 miles without the noise showing any sign of disappearing.

I first suffered with the problem nearly 2 years ago when the car had covered only 2k when BMW Assist were called out who carried out the Bleed Procedure I have since found out. Now with 20k on clock it happened a few times recently, most of the time when collecting from the dealer for some strange reason, but made it easier to get sorted, although dealer had to go through the "PUMA" process with BMW to get this sorted. This is the first case my dealer has come across.

The following youtube video I found shows the problem very well



And the following 42 page forum thread gives a bigger idea about the problem.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13504

Receipt showing items replaced and costs. (Names etc removed to protect the innocent).

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The New Cylinder Head has been redesigned to include a non return valve to keep the oil in the lifters when the engine isn’t running to avoid this issue.

If you use your Z4 daily the issue may not appear, I use mine every other day during the week there are odd weeks where it is not used at all, it is after these period the problem is most likely to happen as the oil has had more time to drain.

I have tried to keep this short but can provide a lot more info if required.

Steve
Last edited by srhutch on Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by Incompatible » Fri May 01, 2009 4:51 am

Read through all 42 pages, certainly worth the time and effort. Something that's good to know and something that you hope you never have to use. Thanks for the post. :thumbsup:
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Fri May 01, 2009 6:34 am

You have read 20 page ore than I have then. :oops:

Seems to be a problem more in the states for some reason or other.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by jamiez » Fri May 01, 2009 8:08 am

Good write up - ive been listening to mine everyday for that noise (since your pm) and can hear nothing similar - YET! My zed is a daily commuter tho! :driving:
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by shabba » Fri May 01, 2009 8:45 am

Video isnt working?
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by Breaker » Fri May 01, 2009 9:56 am

I had the same problem with my first BMW MINI Cooper engine. It was the same fix also.
3.0si Z4 Coupe then an sDrive 35i Z4. Great cars, now gone. Range Rover Evoque owner now! :)

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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by Zed_Steve » Fri May 01, 2009 1:41 pm

Ugh! that 330 sounds like a bag o' nails. Will keep an eye on mine, it is used daily so hopefully there will be no issues.
Glad you managed to get yours done under warranty, 3400 quid! phew!
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Fri May 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Zed_Steve wrote:Ugh! that 330 sounds like a bag o' nails. Will keep an eye on mine, it is used daily so hopefully there will be no issues.
Glad you managed to get yours done under warranty, 3400 quid! phew!
Exactly what mine sounded like :(

My concern would be if it started doing this out of warranty, BMW claim it doesnt damage the engine which I said is rubbish, so people posting say if you car is out of warrany then live with it. No way I was going to live with that noise.

I also asked for a copy of the warranty Invoice so when I come to sell I have proof this work has been done if the buyer is aware of this issue.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by Zed_Steve » Fri May 01, 2009 1:58 pm

srhutch wrote:
Zed_Steve wrote:Ugh! that 330 sounds like a bag o' nails. Will keep an eye on mine, it is used daily so hopefully there will be no issues.
Glad you managed to get yours done under warranty, 3400 quid! phew!
Exactly what mine sounded like :(

My concern would be if it started doing this out of warranty, BMW claim it doesnt damage the engine which I said is rubbish, so people posting say if you car is out of warrany then live with it. No way I was going to live with that noise.

I also asked for a copy of the warranty Invoice so when I come to sell I have proof this work has been done if the buyer is aware of this issue.
Or they were just trying it on as usual, attempting to get out of correcting something that clearly isnt right :x
Now - N/A

Then... E89 sDrive35iS(2012-2013), E89 sDrive30i(2011-2012), E85 3.0si Sport Roadster(2009-2011), Z3 2.8(2005-2009).

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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 pm

It was a Technical Bulliten that stated there was no damage caused, I will try and find this along with the Bleed procedure and post. Some owners in USA are struggling to get there cylinder head changed though, think mine was fixed quickly becasue I really kicked up a fuss about not having a loan car, which BMW UK then supplied which put pressure BMW service to find resolution so dealer could fix.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Fri May 01, 2009 11:19 pm

Found a copy of the Bleeding procedure.

SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA): "Ticking" or "Rattling" Noises


MODEL
All E82, E83, E85, E86, E88, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92, and E93 with the N51, N52 or N52K engines


SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the HVA elements may occur during cold engine starts or frequent short-distance driving.

CAUSE
In these situations, the HVA elements may not yet have been supplied with sufficient amounts of air-free oil. This condition will not cause any damage to the engine, and usually remedies itself with a longer driving distance or operating times at full operating temperature.

CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, please perform the following the HVA bleeding procedure.

PROCEDURE
Important notes:

The bleed time may take anywhere from between two minutes and (in rare cases) to a maximum of 30 minutes. This procedure is to be performed on a level surface with the vehicle stationary, and in a properly ventilated area.

Procedure preconditions:

Engine oil level correct – neither underfilled nor overfilled

Engine running at operating temperature

Bring the engine up to an operating speed (no load) of 2000-3000 rpm and maintain this condition for three minutes (bleeding procedure).

Let the engine idle for 15-30 seconds and reevaluate whether the noise is still present or not.

Engine quiet – procedure is finished.

Engine noise is still present – repeat the procedure; perform steps #1 and #2 up to a maximum of 5 times.

Only if the noise remains after performing the bleeding procedure 5 times: proceed by performing the procedure for a final time, also at an engine operating speed of 2000-3000 rpm, but for a total time duration of 15 minutes.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by ksher » Sat May 02, 2009 11:08 am

Is Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) only fitted to 2.5/3.0si model?
Current BMW: 640d Gran Coupe M Sport (F06), 118d SE (F20).
Previous BMW: Z4 sDrive23i M Sport (E89), 318i Sport (F30), 120d SE (F20), Z4 2.5i Sport Roadster (E85), 523i Sport (E60), 323Ci (E46), 523i SE (E39), 318i (E36).

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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by Adam D » Sat May 02, 2009 1:18 pm

Many modern engines use hydraulic tappets/valve adjusters, high revving engines tend to go for non hydraulic solutions (the S54 M engine for instance), as the hydraulics have trouble keeping up with higher rpm's generated in those engines. Its also the reason they have the expensive Inspection 2 service where the engine tappets are reshimmed to maintain the correct valve clearances.

If you have taken the top part of an engine apart you will know soon know if a hydraulic tappet has failed, a good one will be full of oil and be very hard to press in by hand. A faulty one will not retain oil and be spongy. It seems as though the N52 has a trouble retaining the oil in the tappets and takes a while to rebuld oil pressure on them - sounding like a bag of nails as the clearances are not kept tight and things rattle about.

This can happen from infrequent use and a long drive giving the engine some work should sort it out and purge the air in the tappets, poor design though for allowing it to happen in the first place.

Some useful reading here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_lifters
Last edited by Adam D on Sat May 02, 2009 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by srhutch » Sat May 02, 2009 3:54 pm

ksher wrote:Is Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) only fitted to 2.5/3.0si model?
Ksher your's will be OK as it is the older engine, although as Adam says it does have Hydraulic Adjusters.
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Re: 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)

Post by ksher » Sat May 02, 2009 7:21 pm

srhutch wrote:
ksher wrote:Is Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) only fitted to 2.5/3.0si model?
Ksher your's will be OK as it is the older engine, although as Adam says it does have Hydraulic Adjusters.
The engine in my Z4 is also N52. What are the mechancial differences between 2.5i/3.0i and 2.5si/3.0si?

I did not have patience to go through all pages from E90 forum. What was the consequence of this problem and you had the whole cylinder head replaced under warranty? Cracked cylinder head or something very serious? Does it only affect more power N52 engine?
Current BMW: 640d Gran Coupe M Sport (F06), 118d SE (F20).
Previous BMW: Z4 sDrive23i M Sport (E89), 318i Sport (F30), 120d SE (F20), Z4 2.5i Sport Roadster (E85), 523i Sport (E60), 323Ci (E46), 523i SE (E39), 318i (E36).

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