Water pump failure / replacement advice (3.0Si)

TameRacingDriver · Post by **TameRacingDriver** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:41 pm

Hi all, my car has ticked over to 85,000 (I've owned since about 78k), and I can find no evidence that the water pump has been done. I've done a bit of googling and reading, as well as spoke to some friends, and I can't find any consensus as to whether I should do this as preventative measures or just wait till it goes and shut the car down and be recovered.

It's not a cheap job, as we know, so its natural to want to get the most out of it, and one of my mates says it could still gives me a few years; he also mentions the new pump could also die at any time. On the other hand, the engine doesn't take well to overheating, so it would be better to avoid the situation.

If I decided to risk it, does the car give any audible warning of trouble, i.e. a beep if it starts to overheat. I'd feel more comfortable about risking it (I guess) if I was warned in advance, but I remember one occasion in another (old) car where the temp was on max before I realised because I didn't constantly look at the gauges.

I don't mind spending the money but if I could get another couple of years out of it I wouldn't object either.

Chris_D · Post by **Chris_D** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:52 pm

Best is to change both waterpump and thermostat at the same time.
This will be my next jobs after ccv replacement.
Good idea to renew oil filter housing gasket too if an e85 6 pot?
Indication is your temp guage creeping away from 90 degrees.

Steve84N · Post by **Steve84N** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:04 pm

Mine failed and I had to get recovered which on a daily is a pain. I happened to notice in the morning when I got to work that the engine fan was on after I switched off. That set alarm bells ringing so I watched it on the way home and didn't get very far before it overheated. The red zone of the gauge lights up but I don't think it beeped.

I can't remember the mileage but it was less than 60,000.

Smartbear · Post by **Smartbear** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:05 pm

TameRacingDriver wrote:Hi all, my car has ticked over to 85,000 (I've owned since about 78k), and I can find no evidence that the water pump has been done. I've done a bit of googling and reading, as well as spoke to some friends, and I can't find any consensus as to whether I should do this as preventative measures or just wait till it goes and shut the car down and be recovered.

It's not a cheap job, as we know, so its natural to want to get the most out of it, and one of my mates says it could still gives me a few years; he also mentions the new pump could also die at any time. On the other hand, the engine doesn't take well to overheating, so it would be better to avoid the situation.

If I decided to risk it, does the car give any audible warning of trouble, i.e. a beep if it starts to overheat. I'd feel more comfortable about risking it (I guess) if I was warned in advance, but I remember one occasion in another (old) car where the temp was on max before I realised because I didn't constantly look at the gauges.

I don't mind spending the money but if I could get another couple of years out of it I wouldn't object either.

I knew my pump was in trouble as it was starting to pulse the cooling fan from a cold start-I could hear it revving up/down

It was still working at this point but I changed it anyway, taking it as a warning. A code reader read "implausible pump speed" from memory-it didn't flag up any dash lights & had not overheated the engine.
Rob

Mr Tidy · Post by **Mr Tidy** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:24 pm

Hi OP,

Mine failed on my first coupe at 9 years old and around 60K miles. I had just fuelled up and within a mile the temperature gauge shot round towards the red and the warning light in the gauge lit up. There was no other warning, but fortunately I have always kept a close eye on the gauges. As it was dark and on an unlit dual carriageway I had to drive a few miles to get off it and with the heater blasting, windows open and high gears with low revs the gauge stayed just below the red mark.

I had it fixed at a local independent BMW garage - OEM pump was £500 and thermostat another £100 (+ fitting) so a bit painful!

But no other ill-effects thankfully.

Based on those costs I personally wouldn't do it as preventative. There is no evidence of my current Coupe having had one even though it is now on 80K miles - I just keep a close eye on the temperature gauge and always carry the RAC card!

The problem with an electric pump is it just stops - mechanical ones tend to fail more gradually so you notice higher temperatures and/or drips before they become terminal. It's one of the downsides of a more advanced engine - the M54 in my E46 is much simpler and cheaper to fix, but they never got around to the Coupe until after the facelift so they all have the N52.

Mind you when it is behaving it is a fantastic engine!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Smartbear · Post by **Smartbear** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:12 pm

Mr Tidy wrote:Hi OP,

Mine failed on my first coupe at 9 years old and around 60K miles. I had just fuelled up and within a mile the temperature gauge shot round towards the red and the warning light in the gauge lit up. There was no other warning, but fortunately I have always kept a close eye on the gauges. As it was dark and on an unlit dual carriageway I had to drive a few miles to get off it and with the heater blasting, windows open and high gears with low revs the gauge stayed just below the red mark.

I had it fixed at a local independent BMW garage - OEM pump was £500 and thermostat another £100 (+ fitting) so a bit painful!
But no other ill-effects thankfully.

Based on those costs I personally wouldn't do it as preventative. There is no evidence of my current Coupe having had one even though it is now on 80K miles - I just keep a close eye on the temperature gauge and always carry the RAC card!

The problem with an electric pump is it just stops - mechanical ones tend to fail more gradually so you notice higher temperatures and/or drips before they become terminal. It's one of the downsides of a more advanced engine - the M54 in my E46 is much simpler and cheaper to fix, but they never got around to the Coupe until after the facelift so they all have the N52.

Mind you when it is behaving it is a fantastic engine!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine

Rob

Mr Tidy · Post by **Mr Tidy** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:30 am

Smartbear wrote:
Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine
Rob

If your pump didn't just stop perhaps luck was on your side (or perhaps tu es chanceux) - when mine went I tried the bleed procedure the next day and I'm sure I could hear the pump working, but I didn't want to risk a cooked engine!

ECP quoted £340 and some pence for a new pump, but I wasn't sure it was OEM and my potential workshop is an allegedly allocated parking space (wish the neighbours knew what "allocated" meant) so I booked it in somewhere I trusted! Plus the car had FSH up to then so I wanted to maintain good service records (which paid off when I sold it to be fair).

Hopefully I will have a decent garage next time I move!

bmwaddict · Post by **bmwaddict** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:26 pm

Smartbear wrote:Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine
Rob

May I ask where from?

Scooba_Steve · Post by **Scooba_Steve** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:36 pm

Have a look on eBay for peirburg (OEM) or on ECP/CP4Less.

Ed Doe · Post by **Ed Doe** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:37 pm

You can get an OEM pump and 'stat from BM Parts Store for less than £300 delivered.

Email or call Sam: 01902 858 927 // [email protected]

From memory the parts and fitting at my local indy came to less than £450.

bmwaddict · Post by **bmwaddict** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:47 pm

Thanks for the info

TameRacingDriver · Post by **TameRacingDriver** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:56 pm

I had a quote to get the water pump done at a BMW specialist today on top of the other work I want done (full engine service and autobox service) and he wants about £380 to supply and fit, this seems OK to me....

That said, all three specialists I spoke to today suggested that they would just let it fail, as it is an expensive pre-emptive fix, which is what a couple of you also suggest, that said, I don't mind spending the money if need be. They pretty much suggested I just keep an eye on the gauge, one of them said the gauge will read into the danger level well before the engine itself melts? Another suggested the car might go into limp mode. They all seemed to agree they wouldn't bother doing it as preventative unless I have no breakdown cover (which I don't, but thats easily rectified). Thoughts?

biojo · Post by **biojo** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:59 pm

I`ve always had RAC cover, but usually the cheapest. But this year i upgraded to the onward travel just in case this only costs £8 after some negotiating

if it was a part that you knew would fail within say a 5k variance then yes preventative would be ok. But these vary from 50k-120k

It doesnt seem to be on age of car either, so I couldn't justify it

TameRacingDriver · Post by **TameRacingDriver** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:16 pm

Thanks for your thought biojo. I was talking to a mate tonight and he is very much of the opinion I should just get it done for peace of mind, but there are too many others saying otherwise to ignore their point of view.

I can see that it's a lot of money for something that *may not* fail perhaps for years yet; I can also see the point of view that if I'm keeping the car, just get it done as I will have to fork out anyway. The biggest barrier to this simply seems to be the random nature of the failures as you said.

Also 2 out of the 3 indys I spoke to today claimed it was unlikely you would end up with engine damage as long as you didn't keep trying to drive it, one claiming the car would eventually go into limp mode to stop you driving it, so the main risk is simply inconvenience; the other mentioned the temp gauge would go into the red a long time before the engine was actually at risk. If that is true then it at least partly puts my mind at rest.

NickDE · Post by **NickDE** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:52 pm

I took a Z4C for a test drive. It did overheat (don't know why, i just gave it back to the dealer and walked away). It started binging and beeping at me when the gauge went red.

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