The time has come: AP Brakes

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playalistic

Senior member
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After frying my brakes on Bedford I'm 100% on getting a BBK. Those of you who have them, where did you buy them from? I'm thinking on just copping out and getting them from Simpsons and having them fit them too, but if I can save anything I'd be happy to given the cost! :roll:
 
I was lucky with a deal on a 2nd hand set... picked the full set up for £1200, with just the front pads needing replacement. eBay sees them every so often, plus you can check the various M3/CSL related forums as the setup is the same.
 
Cheers, does seem crazy to pay the full whack £3k+ for them... I'll keep an eye on the various forums. You had the fucking bargain of the century getting them for £1200! Jammy get! :o
 
i paid 2k for a full front and rear LARGE set, the kit i had from jamie had 200 miles use!! the rotors still had the stickers on them :-)
Jamie had also added pagid pads, and had the red caliper, in-total were talking 3.5ks worth...... i sold my stock stuff for nearly 800 quid.... my new 200 mile APs, cost me 1200 quid in the end, i still had to do the break in... imo it was a crazy bargain......... When jamie re-packaged this up, they were and still are AP factory fresh.... all i needed to buy was the AP fluid..... job done.

playa, how long did your brakes last and how did the rotors look after the fade? what did you experience, gradual fade or just complete braking loss.

Also remember to check/change fluid..... you may have overheated the stock stuff, it will now be much more absorbant.

playa wait for a second hand set or go with k-sports..... you can get EVERYTHING for 2k brand new, k-sports are very good, i have first hand experience with these and imo they are awesome also.

playa the APs DO come up second pretty often... you just have to wait.... i waited a year, lol!!

on the other hand, braided lines, proper fluid and aggressive pads and i promise you wont notice the stock setup, the stock rotors are VERY good items!!
 
Beedub, you literally beat me to buying those by a matter of minutes. I'll never forgive you :D

The brakes lasted 5 proper laps. Even after coming in and cooling the pedal feel was s**t and this was on brand new fluid changed literally days before. Bedford has two huge stops from 130+ to real slow entry so in fairness I never expected the stock brakes to hold on for long. The pads were smoking heavily and the car developed a tug to the left under heavy braking so I assume a caliper was sticking.

I don't believe that braided lines, fluid and race pads will hold up for long either to be honest as it is the calipers that are the biggest issue with this setup. As you know nothing is going to approach the out and out stopping power and endurance of the AP's or other BBK. I don't mind paying £3k for new front & rear, I just want to get them on for the next track day! Also, I don't want to do some halfway house kind of mod that leaves me regretting not going for the APs first time round (knowing what I'm like with buyers remorse!)
 
fair play for using the car properly!!! Thye can still be in perfect condition but enjoyed!! well done!!

Why on earth does bmw stock these ///M cars with these poor brakes, they must repeat must do something about it, im getting more and more dissapointed with bmws direction...
 
Yeah my thinking too. You'd think they'd at least have BBKs as an option on the list?! Shortsighted at best. :thumbsdown:
 
playalistic, You know my views. I upgraded fluid, lines, pads but if could get a BBK i definitely would.
 
Were they really that bad? I found the brakes faded, but then came back "a bit" not overly reassuring!
 
playa take 10 mins and read this........

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319949

shockingly bad failure for an ///M car.

Ali once the stockers go they use just go, i had mine go bright bluey orange once.....
me and andy could smell the pads after 2 laps on curborough, and curb is tiny!! 3 laps would have resulted in brake failure, but to be fair i cant complain as i had power mods.
 
When i was tutoring at Knockhill, the "majority" of brake fade was caused by the driver, not the car. Yes, there is limitations to that statement, but with tuition drivers are able to keep the fade to a minimum. We always found that extra cooling, a change of pads/lines & fluid was enough for the average Joe...
 
Aliv6 said:
Were they really that bad? I found the brakes faded, but then came back "a bit" not overly reassuring!
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Pads and discs were plenty fresh, new fluid and all parts completely stock. After probably the third session the fluid was cooked and one of the calipers was sticky as there was a definite pull to the left that had developed on the heavy stops.

It was the GT circuit with the two huge stops from 130+ so in fairness I'm sure the brakes would last longer on somewhere less demanding (brake-wise I'm talking, not technically etc as Bedford is of course flat as a pancake) and to be fair there was still some (albeit spongy) pedal feel but the brakes weren't at 100% and ask James_H what happens when your car chows down on Bedfordshire free-range and makes like an expensive lawnmower after that long back straight :rofl:

Given the amount of track days I plan to be doing (at least 1 a month) I don't need to justify the expense of a BBK. Sure I could have gone round slower and easier on the brakes but you should be able to have at least a few maximum attack laps mixed in with cooling down laps and expect to retain some effectiveness throughout the day. I'm sure uprated pads, lines and fluid would mitigate somewhat, but what's the point of going to a halfway house mod when I can get it sorted properly first time round via a BBK?

Aliv6 as a novice if there are any simple instructions to hold on to your brakes for longer I'm all ears :scratchhead:

Edit: See an M3 dying prematurely from 4:00 onwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8 :?
 
playalistic said:
Aliv6 as a novice if there are any simple instructions to hold on to your brakes for longer I'm all ears :scratchhead:
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I was taught to brake hardest at you fastest speeds and less then pressure as you come to turn, rather than pushing harder & harder to scrub the speed of into the corner. This means that you're getting rid of most of your brake heat at the time when their is the most cooling air coming over them.

This also has the benefit of having a better balance as the car is not tipped onto its nose should you need to trail brake into the corner.

I also find the Z4M likes to understeer a little if you've not completely balanced the car before the corner, but also found that a little throttle input neutralises it - and is my method for doing sweeping corners now.

I had upgraded brakes on my Corrado VR6 and that could outbrake most things on track, but the lardy M5 (30 track days) and the Z4M (1 or 2) has not needed anything other than different pads & fluid, a cool-down lap or two and 20 minute's rest between 20 minute's of driving.

Never had a problem in 20 laps of the 'Ring either (in either the M5 & Z4) - although only 3 laps at a time.
 
mmm-five said:
playalistic said:
Aliv6 as a novice if there are any simple instructions to hold on to your brakes for longer I'm all ears :scratchhead:
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I was taught to brake hardest at you fastest speeds and less then pressure as you come to turn, rather than pushing harder & harder to scrub the speed of into the corner. This means that you're getting rid of most of your brake heat at the time when their is the most cooling air coming over them.

This also has the benefit of having a better balance as the car is not tipped onto its nose should you need to trail brake into the corner.
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Saved me writing it. Echo the above extract. But as you say it is largely dependant on the track. I did Brunter a few yrs back that also had 2 serious stoppers, 130-30...Not alot of fun.
 
I was definitely sympathetic on my brakes... Don't picture me just stamping on them without any finesse but of course I'm the first to admit I am a novice track driver and after the brief period of tuition I was surprised at the amount of welly I was expected to give the brakes, especially since I felt I wasn't exactly forgiving initially. I guess you have to unlearn everything you have experienced on public roads! Or at least temporarily forget :D

With regard to trail braking and finessing weight transfer from nose to rear before/on turn in I'm not there yet of course but that's not to say I'm not aware of loading the nose up too far and the inherent understeer that comes of this (having experienced that quite heavily on the first hairpin after the pit straight)

I also observed the proper cool down technique but throughout the day they just got progressively worse. As I said I've definitely got a lot to learn and maybe it's a little naive of me but I'd like to think the brake effectiveness declining throughout the day wasn't *just* due to my inexperience :)

I'll definitely report back (if anyone is interested) once I have a BBK fitted and have driven on track again. If anything I'd love to go back to Bedford GT for my first trackday with a BBK just for a proper like-for-like comparison...
 
Aliv6 said:
I did Brunter a few yrs back that also had 2 serious stoppers, 130-30...Not alot of fun.
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For me, the worst track in UK is Donington GP, as you have a huge stop at the end of Starkey's/Dunlop Straight followed very quickly by a huge downhill stop for the Melbourne Hairpin, followed quickly by an uphill (and much easier) stop for Goddards - all within about 30 seconds.
Doningtonpark.png


I actually prefer the National config as it cuts out the (to me) pointless hairpin (useful in racing, but overkill for trackdays).

Although if the proposed circuit changes were carried out (as per the F1 debacle), then the Esses at the end of Starkey's/Dunlop would be gone and you could be approaching that downhill braking area for the hairpin at over 150mph in a Z4M :o
Circuit_Doningtonpark_pre_2010.png
 
The chicane on the start finish at Donington has been changed to move it further away from the pit entrance wall.

Its now wider and flows much better than the old one. Its still a significant braking point, as is the entry to redgate, but its much improved. For saloon type cars the estimate is that it reduces lap times by around 2 second.

Donington is my favourite circuit in the UK, but only the national circuit. The melbourne loop is pretty boring, unless you want to spend the day drifting round it :)

Rockingham or Bedford GT at the worst brake killing circuits in my experience.
 
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