Pagid RS14 pads all round? Or with RS4-4 rears? What's best?

Hi,

I have a Z4M with a full AP kit that some forummembers know about. For the moment I have Pagid RS4-2 (blue) brake pads on my car for street and track. They are noisy, so I made the decision to change them for better track pads and have chosen RS14 (black). They are almost the same noise level as the RS4-2, but with better initial bite and better heat management on trackdays. I sometimes have some pad deposit from the RS4-2 blues on my rotors from being to hot (results in steering judder).

I have emailed with Pagid ann they advised me to go for the following set-up on my full AP kit; RS14 (front) and RS4-4 (rear).
RS14: http://www.pagid-brake-pads.co.uk/products/rs14-black-ceramic-based.php
RS4-4: http://www.pagid-brake-pads.co.uk/products/rs44-orange-carbon-based.php

The reason why Pagid advice this softer rear set-up:

"For the Z4 (and for BMWs in general) a very good track set up is RS14 (black) front pads and RS4-4 (orange) rear pads. A lot of pro teams do that.

Due to the weight transfer during braking the front brakes do most of the job, especially on a front engine car. In our experience the brake balance is better when using less friction on the rear axle. On an ABS car you won't feel so much difference but it is better to stay out of the ABS especially with a none racing ABS.

With the original brake there is less dynamic weight transform (shifting weight to the front axle and reduce it on the rear axle) because stopping power is just not as good. So the OE brake is set up for these road conditions. On the track, in relation to road use, you can use more front brakes and therefore want to have a more aggressive front pad. For instance in race cars with a balance bar master cylinder system drivers turn more brake bias to the rear in slick conditions (e.g. rain) because there is less dynamic weight transfer and consequently more rear brake can be used."

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The guys from Simpson Motorsport (UK) have the same opinion;

On most BMWs you will find that the AP 4 pot caliper is a little large for the rear, and that a softer pad will generally work better in the rear with the APs.

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Some people say this set-up with softer rear pads can cause the rear trying to overtake the front. They say the reason is the following; "Sometimes the back not clamping down can cause it to lift and go light so a less braking rear can give the same effect as a rear end clamping and locking"

What would be the best on a Z4M wit AP front and rear (for track and street)? RS14 all round or RS14 (front) / RS4-4 (rear)? I don't have a pure race car. I have a street car that does 8 - 10 trackdays a year (in the summer). I was planning on switching between pads for street and track. But first I want to see how the RS14 handles and sounds with normal street use... If this feels and sounds somewhat ok, I keep them on all the time.

OPINIONS?

Thanks,

I was also of this opinion

Some people say this set-up with softer rear pads can cause the rear trying to overtake the front. They say the reason is the following; "Sometimes the back not clamping down can cause it to lift and go light so a less braking rear can give the same effect as a rear end clamping and locking"

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But i'm sure AP Racing and Simpson know just a bit more about brakes than i do.

Hi Franzino,

Recently fitted APs and decided to go with the RS29 (yellow) pad (I would have gone for carbonne lorraines as discussed before but they don't do a set for the rear...) due to the brake judder issues you are experiencing with the blues.

Anyway on the road they have a good bite from cold, only noisy at very light, very low speed stops, you soon learn when they are going to be noisy and can drive around it.

Anyway so far on the road they seem pretty good albeit they are dusty little buggers! I am off to Silverstone on the 3rd september so will be able to comment on their track manners after that.




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So; How are the RS29 on track with your AP's?

The RS-14 (front) + RS4-4 (rear) are now 2 days on my car. Last night I did the Pagid bedding in procedure and some positive things came to the surface; brake modulation is a little better, they brake a little harder and for the moment they are still completely silent (I really hope they stay this way; that would be great). Next weekend will be the real test on the Nurburgring to see how they behave versus my old Pagid blue. Fingers crossed! :wink:

For the moment I like my set-up more then the blue ones I had before. Maybe one day I will test RS29; but I have a friend (a real race car driver) who also has a track day prepared e92 M3 (AP all round, Michelin Cup +, Akrapovic, KW cup suspension, etc). This M3 is also his daily driver. He tested the Pagid RS29, RS14, RS15... RS29 come last for him... They last really long (endurance pads) but for him the braking (on track) is not at the same level as the RS14 and RS15. He now drives RS15 all round and they are his favorite. RS15 are the most aggressive and I think for me a bit to much on a lighter car like a Z4M, but on his M3 they work great.

if the stock brakes have the capability of locking the wheels I struggle to understand how a BBK can enhance the weight transfer?

Mister_dj said:

if the stock brakes have the capability of locking the wheels I struggle to understand how a BBK can enhance the weight transfer?

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Friction levels are only part of the reason for fast road/track/race pads. Mainly it's about duty cycle/endurance and consistency

An OEM pad might break down/stop working/fade after 4 or 5 laps (or an hour on a clear Sunday in Wales), where a high-temp pad will last all day of the same braking effort.

mmm-five said:

Friction levels are only part of the reason for fast road/track/race pads. Mainly it's about duty cycle/endurance and consistency

An OEM pad might break down/stop working/fade after 4 or 5 laps (or an hour on a clear Sunday in Wales), where a high-temp pad will last all day of the same braking effort.

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Yes I know that, but am trying to understand why is pagid recommending a pad with higher friction at the front because of the "increased weight transfer" coming from the BBK. If a stock brake system can lock wheels, I do not see how a BBK can increase the weight transfer.