Technical help - Golf running issue

[pvr]

As there are a number of very knowledgeable people on here, thought I would check a running issue I have with the 1993 Golf Clipper (K-jetronic injection 1800) engine.

Background:

First outing of the year, car starts as per normal on the first turn of the key. However, it is running very rough and stalled within 5 seconds. Re-started and kept the revs to 2k and it ran like that for 5 minutes, still a bit rough though. After 5 minutes, let the revs drop to idle and it straight away stalled. Could not restart it after that at all, just starter running.

Left the car overnight, and this morning, started on the first turn of the key again but had to keep the revs up again. Still running rough though.

The car has the usual annual services, but items such as spark plugs are rarely changed. Car is on 39k miles now.

Would the approach be to replace the spark plugs, replace HT leads and distributor or does this not sound like an electrical issue but more like a fuel one (fuel filter replacement?)

Appreciate thoughts on where to start with.

[enuff_zed]

I can only base it on my experience with a 2.8i Capri (same K-Jetronic system)
It sounds a little bit like an issue I had with the metering unit.
Old fuel caused the piston to stick.
These are a very close tolerance. If you take one out and hold it in your hand for five minutes it won't fit back in until it has cooled again!
On the Capri there was also an idle control valve on the front of the engine, which opened a valve with a bimetallic spring that heated up.
When cold you could see daylight through the valve if you took the pipes off. As it warmed up the valve closed. It worked in conjunction with the Warm Up Regulator to get more air and fuel in for start up. So check that the valve is operating correctly.
The Warm Up Regulator works to remove fuel pressure from the top of the metering unit piston on cold start. Thus allowing the piston to lift higher and allow more fuel in. This too works on a bimetallic spring and gradually closes the Regulator, allowing pressure to apply to the top of the piston and reducing fuel delivery.
The WUR also has a vacuum pipe. Under hard acceleration the vacuum opens the regulator, once aghain richening the fuel mixture.
There are two banjo couplings on the top of the WUR for fuel pipes. Under one of these should be a fine mesh filter. Get that out and clean it.
I would start by checking the operation of these units, and also putting fresh fuel and maybe some redex through it.

NB. Based on a Capri, so some things may be different.

[pvr]

Thanks Martin, the concept would be very similar I would say.

Cold start every time is perfect, turn the key and it runs - but very poorly and have to keep the revs up, and when warmer, it will no longer start at all so it does sound that either the vaccuum is not working or fuel. The fuel is "fresh" (last year) E5 Super unleaded and the tank is just about full so can't get any more in (unless I set on the drive with a brick on the accelerator to keep the engine riunning).

Will search for that filter to see if I can locate it and will poor Redex in it.

[pvr]

IMG_7554.jpeg (217.44 KiB) Viewed 251 times

Engine for reference to see if you recognise the points you discussed so I can locate them

[enuff_zed]

Can't see the warm up regulator, but if you follow the fuel pipe back from the top middle of the fuel distributor it should lead you to it, or something similar. If it has one then it would be under that end of that pipe that I would expect to find the filter.
Rest looks completely alien I'm afraid.
I'd probably chuck a new fuel filter in regardless.

[pvr]

Agree on the fuel filter, no idea when that would have been replaced. Redex has been ordered to do that bit in any case.

Would there be a benefit in replacing plugs and HT leads at all as again, no idea when the last change would have been of the plugs (no miles on them, just age)

[enuff_zed]

Agree on the fuel filter, no idea when that would have been replaced. Redex has been ordered to do that bit in any case.

Would there be a benefit in replacing plugs and HT leads at all as again, no idea when the last change would have been of the plugs (no miles on them, just age)

I'm not sure they would deteriorate that much without use.
However, what you can do is leave it a while to cool down then pop the plugs out and see if any have fuel on them, pointing to a leaky injector, which could again be down to fuel quality.

[beanie]

I think enuff is on the money and clearly knows the system better than me. My guess would also be fuel/vacuum related. I’d be checking the plugs for fouling then working over the vacuum lines as a first port of call.

I’ve been through hell with the fuel pumps on my mk2 16v but as you’ve kept it stored with a full tank I doubt that’s an issue. Mine seized up and upon removal we found tons of rust into the tank/accumulator/filter. Not a fun/cheap adventure!

Would be worth checking to make sure the main and lift pumps (I assume the mk1 has 2) are priming on ignition. My hunch is it would run fine on idle with just one but perhaps something to consider later on.

Failed temp sensors (possibly water temp iirc) are another thing I remember being a problem for running issues on the kjet cars-not sure that’s the case with yours as it’s running poorly immediately but I’m no expert.

I had a failed ISV (idle stabilisation valve) on my 16v and that had no effect on starting or running but would mean it would just cut out if you left the revs to drop. Doesn’t seem to tally up with your issues though.

Unfortunately I’ve never delved in to the depths of kjet so can’t really help. Hopefully it’s a simple fix. If you really get to your wits end there’s a chap who’s very well versed in golf kjet systems and testing/rebuilding them over in Swindon. I’d be happy to pass you his details if you need.

[pvr]

Thanks beanie.

I called the dealer re the fuel filter and they don’t have them, nor can they get hold of them. This made me check the invoices I have and indeed I cannot see it being replaced for many years. So that is the first task, only issue is that getting the right one (metal canister type) is mission impossible. The sites that use number plates come up with all sorts or compatible ones that are absolutely not compatible.

Via the MK1 Golf forum, I found that I had to look for Scirocco mk 2 parts as the Clipper is the last run of MK1 where MK2 Golfs had long been in circulation so they get confused.

It is obvious that the dealer is certainly not the place to go for the annual mot / service as it looks like it is just an expensive oil change (oh yes, airco service for a car that never had airco. )

I will do the servicing myself now, the service book is full now anyway with 31 years of stamps. Still have to wait 9 years before I can stop the mot which is a nuisance (like now, it is expiring in 8 days and I need to wait for parts and then test).

My guess is that the existing fuel filter could be 10+ years old ….

[beanie]

It’s worth a try and you never know. Before my fuel system was replaced (for the first time!) it ran very rough/hardly at all so it’s a good first try.

If you’re on Facebook then it might be worth asking on one of the groups there. The clubgti forum is still active but you might get a quicker response through faceache.