My 1st Z4 - is 3.0si worth cost over standard 3.0

dklea7 · Post by **dklea7** » Mon May 02, 2016 2:36 am

Hey guys - First time posting here as I'm torn with a decision before making my first Z4 purchase. I have a rather small budget and theres plenty of good 2005-2007 Z4 3.0's that fit in said budget just fine. BUT, I really had my heart set on the 3.0si. So far I've only found 2 good examples of that that are close to my budget (slightly over), and I missed both of them. I'm sure in another 3-5 weeks another will come along but the wait is killing me!

My question is this, is the is the 3.0si really worth the extra cost anyway? I mean the extra 40hp or so seems like a nice boost but it doesn't seem to make hardly any difference on paper (0-60 times n such). I'm curious what you guys think, does it feel better/faster? Does the extra 40hp start making a bigger difference at very high speeds? Or should I just forget about the si, save a couple grand, and just find a great deal on the standard 3.0?

Thanks in advance! And sorry if this has been posted before, I didn't find anything in my search.

Smartbear · Post by **Smartbear** » Mon May 02, 2016 6:38 am

Hi, the si has a more modern engine design which according to bmw is 12% more powerful and also 8% more economical.
The thing is-those with the si will vouch for that while those with the earlier m54 engine car will big that up

Both great cars imho but the si version is definitely more thin on the ground which could hold prices up a little.
Try and test drive one of each if possible

The extra purchase price of an si is recovered on resale anyway so wouldn't really cost you more over your ownership.
Rob

TR4man · Post by **TR4man** » Mon May 02, 2016 7:31 am

Buy the best car that you can regardless as to whether it is an Si or not.

Condition, proof of sympathetic care and provenance are far more important.

...and be patient. It is all to easy to buy with the heart and not the head!

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Mon May 02, 2016 7:49 am

I had a similar dilemma but between the 3.0 and the 2.5 when I was looking six years ago, in the end I went for the best low mileage, full history 2.5 available for my budget and have never regretted it, it's caused no expensive heartache and is a peach to drive. As to being 40 ponies down, I wouldn't fret too much the 3.0 is a very quick car anyway.

One small consideration is engine reliability, all the six cylinder engines are reliable but the Si N52 unit can have issues with 'ticking' hydraulic valve adjusters particularly when cold and can require a new full head at massive expense (search "bmw N52 HVA lifter noise"). And the electric water pumps can be a weakness, if not spotted this leads to overheating and potential damage. The earlier M54 3.0 is by reputation probably the most bulletproof six BMW have produced.

But if after a test drive comparing the two max bhp is all and you find a bargain Si that checks out, then the newer car may well be right for you, choices, choices

AlienZed · Post by **AlienZed** » Mon May 02, 2016 8:05 am

Hi bud, ive got a 3.0 se auto, and my mate an 08 si and tbh on the power thing not much difference, been behind a few si's on hoons an none of em have managed to shake me off, biggest plus I supppose the newer engine is more economical , my mate does get 10% better fuel consumption , which is a bit irritating when we go to the pumps together

M

mr.tourette · Post by **mr.tourette** » Mon May 02, 2016 8:36 am

TR4man wrote:Buy the best car that you can regardless as to whether it is an Si or not.

Condition, proof of sympathetic care and provenance are far more important.

...and be patient. It is all to easy to buy with the heart and not the head!

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

this 100%.... the right spec, a cared for car and condition is more important than si/non si, I was in the same boat and luckily for me found an si at the right spec/price, I would have had no problem buying an earlier model though

MACK · Post by **MACK** » Mon May 02, 2016 8:45 am

Hi, firstly welcome aboard. I think you will find most of us a friendly bunch and there is plenty of great/detailed information on here that you may find useful before and after you pull the trigger on a zed.

Your basically in the same situation I was this time last year. In the end I plumed for a 3.0i SE on a 05 plate that I got a great deal on privately.
For me my zed was only going to be a third car in my household for a bit of fun now and then and not a daily driver, its done about 2K since I bought it last July.

Pro's for me of the Si over the 3.0i are;
1) The black interior plastics.
2) The nicer finish on the dash/centre console metal trims,
3) The M sport seats.
4) The M Sport Steering Wheel.
4) The larger front brakes.
5) The doors have more sound deadening than earlier cars and actually sound like a BMW door when you shut it.
5) A little better fuel economy.
6) A bit of extra oomph.

Con's are;
1) The £2-4,000 price differential. You will literally pay thousands more for a 3.0Si that is as little as 12 months newer than a 3.0i SE of similar miles/spec/condition etc
2) I actually prefer the earlier front bumper, The later ones seems plain to me.
3) The N52 engine appears to have a couple of issues that aren't that big a deal but did, put me off. Some can be a bit tappety, especially when not used regularly (which mine isn't) it doesn't effect the engine but can be annoying. Water pumps are another common failure.
4) Parts can be pricey, the water pump and thermostat are best part of £500 just for the parts. This compares to the M54 engine in the 3.0i where water pumps are also a common failure, on these the part can be had for around £30.
5) The noise an M54 makes is nicer than the later N52 to my ears (subjective I know)
6) I prefer the overall shape of a earlier rear lights (minus the french fries) over the tear drop shape of the later ones and some folks have had the later ones fail as well
7) I have/wanted a Titanium Silver car. With this colour in particular, but also some others I prefer the headlights with the orange hockey sticks. The clears lights just look very plain to me, especially with the chrome backs that come standard on all 3.0 cars.

I actually prefer the 107 wheels I have (earlier cars) to the later MV2's on the zed.

I did toy with the idea of massively upping my £5,000 budget to at least £8,000 to land a land a decent 3.0Si of equivalent spec/mileage/condition but in the end I didn't.

My solution was to buy a nice 3.0i SE from a guy who just want a bit more than he was being offered by WBAC etc with the options I knew I wanted that weren't and easy retrofit for a trade price.
1) I then bought some M Sport seats a week after buying the car, fitted them then sold my old seats. Net cost £250.
2) Sourced all the black plastics including vents and radio from a breakers as a job lot. Then sold my grey bits a piece at a time. Basically breaking even.
3) Royals steering wheel retrim. Cost £110-120.
4) Wrapped interior metal trims and some plastics in 3M Carbon Fibre. Looks great cost about £30.
5) Bought brand new rear lights with the 4 spots and new clear side indicators. Cost about £300.

Even with these costs and the initial purchase price I was still well under my original £5,000 budget.

I have also done a lot of other mods such as the clear rear brake light and ZHP gear knob but these and any others I would have done on a 3.0Si as well.

The only 3.0Si spec mods I would still like to do are the bigger front brakes and the sound deadening. Looking it these cost wise I think £250 should cover it and again I would still be under budget.

Summary, I guess its down to the individual and in my case spending the extra on 3.0Si doesn't make sense, but it certainly will to others and I totally understand that. I just thought I could get better value for money taking the approach I have and I personally didn't think the extra oomph of the 3.0Si was massively noticeable on the road and not worth the huge price premium. Same is true of the fuel economy, especially when you consider my cars annual mileage.

Hope some of this is useful

mr wilks · Post by **mr wilks** » Mon May 02, 2016 9:15 am

Welcome to the forum , much good info already posted so worth the read
No mention of budget but guessing around £6500/£7500 ? No mention of what you want from the car either ?
Is it a daily driver heading for 15k a year or a weekender likely to cover 3k ?
If the budget above is your max i would seriously consider the 2.5Si against the 3.0Se

Certainly worth a tesdrive to compare as many can be had with decent spec & mileage within your budget
Otherwise the 262bhp 3.0 Si is worth any extra £ you may have to find , sounds great & feels torquey & free revving & whilst being a quick car can also produce high MPG
Enjoy the hunt & keep us posted with any possibles

mr.tourette · Post by **mr.tourette** » Mon May 02, 2016 11:19 am

As always great advice from mr.wilks, The 2.5si always kinda gets forgotten and is a great buy at less cash... there are a couple of nice forum 2.5si for sale at the minute too

paulgs1000 · Post by **paulgs1000** » Mon May 02, 2016 12:49 pm

Hmm - well I guess it all depends on what you want. . . .

AlienZed is right - if you're worried about performance on the road don't be - the driver makes the difference as 3.0i (AlienZed has the auto) 2.5si and 3.0si are all capable on the road. We have a 2.0i driver who is also easily capable of keeping up on the road (and leading very well indeed!) and it's only the extra punch for certain overtakes that is lacking (I like the 2.0i very much).

So the answer is to buy the best Zed you can find which has been cherished and well maintained. If you have certain options in mind or a certain colour, you will have to be patient but it will likely be available more if you widen your search to include 2.5si and 3.0i.

3.0si prices are strong and they are sought after and quite rare. I went for one because I wanted a later version of the Zed and I knew the 3.0si would hold it's value - it took me 8 months to find one at my price point.

The only negative I think regarding the pre facelift Zeds is that they are getting on in age (all more than 10 years old) so do make certain you seek out an example that has been properly serviced and maintained. As they become cheaper and more accessible it's possible they may be less maintained and passed on once they call for necessary investment - these are the ones to stay away from (unless you have mechanical ability and resources) - I'm sure you get the point. A good Independent Specialist will cut down your Zed running costs - there are some choice, well sorted and magnificent 3.0i out there.

Good luck with your search - do be patient - a good Zed will be a fantastic drive for the money.

dklea7 · Post by **dklea7** » Mon May 02, 2016 1:58 pm

Wow this was a great response! Thanks everyone! I definitely feel much better about the decision now. I think I agree with all of you that the Si would be a nice little perk if one came along that was well taken care of and within my budget; but doesn't sound like it's something I should be nearly as focused on as I have been. I test drove a 2006 3.0 and loved it, and it doesn't sound like I would have any reason to regret losing the little bit of power the Si would give me. Plus the reliability issues (as minor as they may be) on the Si are a little off putting.

I'm just going to focus on finding the best deal I can in either version of the 3.0; now I just have to be patient

Thanks for the advice and warm welcome!

MACK · Post by **MACK** » Mon May 02, 2016 2:07 pm

dklea7 wrote:Wow this was a great response! Thanks everyone! I definitely feel much better about the decision now. I think I agree with all of you that the Si would be a nice little perk if one came along that was well taken care of and within my budget; but doesn't sound like it's something I should be nearly as focused on as I have been. I test drove a 2006 3.0 and loved it, and it doesn't sound like I would have any reason to regret losing the little bit of power the Si would give me. Plus the reliability issues (as minor as they may be) on the Si are a little off putting.

I'm just going to focus on finding the best deal I can in either version of the 3.0; now I just have to be patient

Thanks for the advice and warm welcome!

Where are you based?

dklea7 · Post by **dklea7** » Mon May 02, 2016 3:03 pm

MACK wrote:
dklea7 wrote:Wow this was a great response! Thanks everyone! I definitely feel much better about the decision now. I think I agree with all of you that the Si would be a nice little perk if one came along that was well taken care of and within my budget; but doesn't sound like it's something I should be nearly as focused on as I have been. I test drove a 2006 3.0 and loved it, and it doesn't sound like I would have any reason to regret losing the little bit of power the Si would give me. Plus the reliability issues (as minor as they may be) on the Si are a little off putting.

I'm just going to focus on finding the best deal I can in either version of the 3.0; now I just have to be patient

Thanks for the advice and warm welcome!
Where are you based?

I'm in the US (indiana). Seems like there's less concentration of Z4's here, but the good news is I have a "buddy pass" with my brother who works with United Airlines. So I can fly anyhwere in the US for $50. So my search includes the entirrre country. And I don't really mind if I have to drive 1,000 miles to get home with my new car. Just a good opportunity to open it up and learn the car!

GreyZed · Post by **GreyZed** » Mon May 02, 2016 7:34 pm

I currently have an X3 with the 2.5si N52 engine and a Z4 with the 3.0i M54 engine. For me the M54 is a much nicer engine to live with.

In my experience the M54 is smoother, sounds nicer, is less complicated, more reliable and parts are more reasonably priced.

Z4-forum.com

Z4-forum.com