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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
- sunnydays
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:50 am
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Hey all,
So I am presently having a set of Eibach Pro springs fitted to my 35is. These offer a 0mm rear/10mm front drop over m sport springs.
What I am curious about is given BMW spends millions on development, R&D, research etc on suspension setups for their cars exstensively testing in all scenarios, how is it that aftermarket springs can be considered an upgrade so to speak.
Ie are they as exstensively tested, how do they quantify wether spring is an upgrade? Do they utilise G force sensors to measure body roll for example. Do they spend as much on R&D? Given that the eibachs seem to reduce rake by lowering the front of the car more what is the overall aero effect of this on the cars speed, downforce, handling and traction etc...
Apologies if this has been asked before just genuinely curious.
Thanks!
So I am presently having a set of Eibach Pro springs fitted to my 35is. These offer a 0mm rear/10mm front drop over m sport springs.
What I am curious about is given BMW spends millions on development, R&D, research etc on suspension setups for their cars exstensively testing in all scenarios, how is it that aftermarket springs can be considered an upgrade so to speak.
Ie are they as exstensively tested, how do they quantify wether spring is an upgrade? Do they utilise G force sensors to measure body roll for example. Do they spend as much on R&D? Given that the eibachs seem to reduce rake by lowering the front of the car more what is the overall aero effect of this on the cars speed, downforce, handling and traction etc...
Apologies if this has been asked before just genuinely curious.
Thanks!
-
- Lifer
- Posts: 11079
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 pm
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
'Upgrade springs' generally are progressive, meaning the the harder the load that's put on them, e.g. cornering, the stiffer they become as the load increases. You can often see this by the coils becoming more tightly wound on the top mounting end. Lowering is done to reduce car body roll or to give a different stance for aesthetics. You won't notice any difference in aero or speed, I guess if you put very sensitive measuring equipment on the car and measure aero there might be a very slight difference at high speed but so miniscule you'd never notice.
M roady...OEM CSL’s, strut brace, Remus back boxes, ZHP
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
- cj10jeeper
- Lifer
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
I would take the word 'upgrade' out of any advert to do with parts to add to a car.
That said there is nothing wrong with your logic that BMW spends a fortune on development of springs, shock absorbers, etc., but what they fit is a compromise for dozens of countries, driving styles, roads and to a price.
With careful selection and more money you can buy parts that better suit what you want, lower/higher, more/less comfort, better cornering, etc. Equally with poor selection you can really mess up..
That said there is nothing wrong with your logic that BMW spends a fortune on development of springs, shock absorbers, etc., but what they fit is a compromise for dozens of countries, driving styles, roads and to a price.
With careful selection and more money you can buy parts that better suit what you want, lower/higher, more/less comfort, better cornering, etc. Equally with poor selection you can really mess up..
Jaguar F-Type 3.0 Supercharged V6 S, Stratus Grey, LSD, Active Exhaust, CF wheels, Performance brakes, Sports seats and mods ongoing
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
- mr wilks
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Hard to disagree with any of the above "sunnydays " & to simplify don't expect £170 of Eibachs to offer any improvement to the car other than visualcj10jeeper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:51 pm I would take the word 'upgrade' out of any advert to do with parts to add to a car.
That said there is nothing wrong with your logic that BMW spends a fortune on development of springs, shock absorbers, etc., but what they fit is a compromise for dozens of countries, driving styles, roads and to a price.
With careful selection and more money you can buy parts that better suit what you want, lower/higher, more/less comfort, better cornering, etc. Equally with poor selection you can really mess up..
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
- sunnydays
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- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:50 am
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Thanks John, this makes sensejohn-e89 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:57 pm 'Upgrade springs' generally are progressive, meaning the the harder the load that's put on them, e.g. cornering, the stiffer they become as the load increases. You can often see this by the coils becoming more tightly wound on the top mounting end. Lowering is done to reduce car body roll or to give a different stance for aesthetics. You won't notice any difference in aero or speed, I guess if you put very sensitive measuring equipment on the car and measure aero there might be a very slight difference at high speed but so miniscule you'd never notice.
Ahh so you could say the standard BMW Springs are "General" one size fits all springs that aim to be good in all scenarios, where aftermarket springs can narrow down to one particular segment and be more focused at that, IE race springs that offer increased corning ability at the expense of comfortcj10jeeper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:51 pm I would take the word 'upgrade' out of any advert to do with parts to add to a car.
That said there is nothing wrong with your logic that BMW spends a fortune on development of springs, shock absorbers, etc., but what they fit is a compromise for dozens of countries, driving styles, roads and to a price.
With careful selection and more money you can buy parts that better suit what you want, lower/higher, more/less comfort, better cornering, etc. Equally with poor selection you can really mess up..
Thanks, agreed as it does make sense. One last thing that is confusing me is you state that I should not expect the Eibachs to offer any handling improvement only visual. Their are various reviews by users on here that state it has improved handling, road holding, reduced crashiness etc... Would you say that it is placebo?
Thanks Guys appreciated!
- mr wilks
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Its jmo so may not match anyone else's but the 5 cars ive had lowering springs fitted to all handled worse afterwards simply they did not ride the bumps as well as on OEM springs
2 cars were V6 TTs which to be fair wallowed into bends on stock springs , afterwards they still wallowed only looking a lot cooler
ZMR on OEMs drive far better than on Eibach's to me , others may disagree
2 cars were V6 TTs which to be fair wallowed into bends on stock springs , afterwards they still wallowed only looking a lot cooler
ZMR on OEMs drive far better than on Eibach's to me , others may disagree
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
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- Lifer
- Posts: 11079
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 pm
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Eibachs on my old MR2 were superb, much improved, however on an M roady I tried they were awful, way too hard and crashy, so as CJeeper says it's easy to ruin a cars feel. Tread carefully imo, I wouldn't put aftermarket springs on a 35is unless I'd tried one beforehand, easier said than done I know but there it is, you may get bitten.
M roady...OEM CSL’s, strut brace, Remus back boxes, ZHP
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
- cj10jeeper
- Lifer
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- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:50 am
- Location: Lichfield, England
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Ahh so you could say the standard BMW Springs are "General" one size fits all springs that aim to be good in all scenarios, where aftermarket springs can narrow down to one particular segment and be more focused at that, IE race springs that offer increased corning ability at the expense of comfort
Yes - I'd agree with the summary above
I wouldn't say BMW get it right all of the time for all drivers, but for most, most of the time
There's 115,000 E89's running around, of which I'd guess 99% are every happy on OEM set up of tyres, springs, shock absorbers, suspension and other related components
If however you know what you want to achieve and make a series of correct well informed decisions, knowing the compromises, you can improve things to better suit your needs.
Reality is that much of the time people make poor decisions, or at least ill informed and while gaining one benefit compromise many other aspects.
Yes - I'd agree with the summary above
I wouldn't say BMW get it right all of the time for all drivers, but for most, most of the time
There's 115,000 E89's running around, of which I'd guess 99% are every happy on OEM set up of tyres, springs, shock absorbers, suspension and other related components
If however you know what you want to achieve and make a series of correct well informed decisions, knowing the compromises, you can improve things to better suit your needs.
Reality is that much of the time people make poor decisions, or at least ill informed and while gaining one benefit compromise many other aspects.
Jaguar F-Type 3.0 Supercharged V6 S, Stratus Grey, LSD, Active Exhaust, CF wheels, Performance brakes, Sports seats and mods ongoing
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
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- Lifer
- Posts: 8202
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Personally I'd look at struts and anti roll bars first as an upgrade over springs. Adjustable struts will help you find a good compromise on handling and anti roll bars will help with the lean and wobble characteristics.
- sunnydays
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- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:50 am
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Thanks for the input everyone. The situation was a rear spring had snapped on my 35is and came back at approx £130. So rather than just replacing the 1 I read around online and saw the good reviews for the eibach and slight drop in ride height. They are currently being fitted so will just have to wait and see.
Hopefully they feel good will find out tommorow
Hopefully they feel good will find out tommorow
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Looking forward to the pics and the forthcoming review with interest
Next Z landed ..... Z3 3.0i Sport Roadster
Z4 35iS ..... Gone to a new home
Z4 35iS ..... Gone to a new home
- mr wilks
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
I think 90% of the time (depending on your driving style , speeds , roads ) you will be happy enough but its the other 10% when they disappoint its knowing how to avoid those situations or simply put up with the deficiencies for improvement in stancesunnydays wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:20 pm Thanks for the input everyone. The situation was a rear spring had snapped on my 35is and came back at approx £130. So rather than just replacing the 1 I read around online and saw the good reviews for the eibach and slight drop in ride height. They are currently being fitted so will just have to wait and see.
Hopefully they feel good will find out tommorow
3 ZMRs
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
3 E89s
5 Si coupes
5 Si roadsters
997 C4
TTRS
F82 M4
MK7 Golf Gti
current Bmw 6 Gran Turismo
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Some very good sense and opinion being said on this thread
Yas Marina Blue 35i.
- sunnydays
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- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:50 am
How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Update for all interested:
The springs have been installed and fitted for a week now. The car has dropped by 10mm up front and 0mm on the rear as expected. The 10mm front drop is noticeable and looks much better.
In terms of driving:
It feels similar to the stock springs. Maybe their is a more noticeable difference on track where you can really push the car etc.... for day to day driving they feel similar and improve the stance of the car.
Thanks all for your input!
The springs have been installed and fitted for a week now. The car has dropped by 10mm up front and 0mm on the rear as expected. The 10mm front drop is noticeable and looks much better.
In terms of driving:
It feels similar to the stock springs. Maybe their is a more noticeable difference on track where you can really push the car etc.... for day to day driving they feel similar and improve the stance of the car.
Thanks all for your input!
- alex
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How do aftermarket springs improve handling?
Do they make the car less crashy at all? Definitely something I wouldn't mind improving on mine, tends to get unsettled easily as well, but 19" wheels definitely don't help....
Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better
35iS - Space grey, red leather and 19" 326Ms - now gone to a fellow forum member