BMW E89 Audio Systems and Upgrades

[Silverstar]

I assume the woofer adaptor ring are for the front kick panels? Did you make them yourself or can you buy them?

[Pbondar]

I assume the woofer adaptor ring are for the front kick panels? Did you make them yourself or can you buy them?

Hi yes because of a lack of OE fitment woofers I made up the ring adapter from 5 ply..the chap in the US Morelli had done something similar..the footwell trim stands proud of the speaker by some way so was relatively easily done..just a b$gg%r getting the new mega magnet lined up as it wanted to be pulled to the steel work..screwed and glued it in place..no resonances..

Had to make a new connector up as the BMW speaker version didn't match the new speaker..

On the 676 amp both woofers are wired in series ie driven only one one channel, I assume summed..so fortunately, the two sets of wires run all the way to the amp area where they are spliced prior to entering the amp..so it was relatively easy to unpick them..that's where the 3 series harness supplied differs from the E89..there is no support for woofers in most after markket harnesses for BMW amp upgrades..bit more splicing required!

2019-09-02 15.52.16.jpg (173.72 KiB) Viewed 1733 times

[Silverstar]

Pbondar, you did a fine job with those adaptor rings. Do you know if they are commercially available? If not would you be prepared to make up a set (for a fee of course) for when I eventually get around to upgrading mine. I am just not very good with this sort of thing and I don't have the tools to do it.

On another note am I correct in thinking that actually the base 6 speaker system might be easier to upgrade. Just a case of upgrading the speakers in the doors (to include the tweeter in the mirror housing) and rear behind the seats speakers and adding some subwoofers to the kick panels wired to a mono amp using a line out converter from the existing wiring to the woofers. It seems there are a couple of members who have done this and according to them with great results.

[Pbondar]

Pbondar, you did a fine job with those adaptor rings. Do you know if they are commercially available? If not would you be prepared to make up a set (for a fee of course) for when I eventually get around to upgrading mine. I am just not very good with this sort of thing and I don't have the tools to do it.

On another note am I correct in thinking that actually the base 6 speaker system might be easier to upgrade. Just a case of upgrading the speakers in the doors (to include the tweeter in the mirror housing) and rear behind the seats speakers and adding some subwoofers to the kick panels wired to a mono amp using a line out converter from the existing wiring to the woofers. It seems there are a couple of members who have done this and according to them with great results.

Hello..I can do a set of adaptors but it of course depends on which woofers you select..

There are many options including that version you state..

The observations are:

1) The base stereo is only 15w per channel so not a lot of drive for the speakers..but the Eton versions are quite efficient..
2) The base stereo has a very heavily tweaked signal, forward biased and tailored to compensate for the cheapest speakers..using that signal out has its limitations but if you're summing and feeding into a sub woofer optimised amp the roll off curve and sensitivity controls will offset that..
3) Better IMHO to use a two channal amp and get a bit of stereo seperation with a roll off control if possible.

So I'm sure it would be an improvement and relatively cheap..just a few caveats..you may have to play with the tone controls a bit to get around the tailored response from the stereo vs the extended range of the replacement door speakers and of course te new fresh and bright tweeters..

[Silverstar]

Perfect thanks

[Felixlamb]

Awesome write up and very informative! I (unfortunately) have the shoddy base system in my Zed and I've also noticed how frontally biased the system is. To bump up the sound of the rear speakers and to give a little bit of surround I shifted the balance slightly to the back using the radio unit, but of course that has disproportionately decreased the volume of the front speakers. Is there any way to increase the volume of the rear speakers without taking such a massive volume hit from the front ones?

[Pbondar]

Awesome write up and very informative! I (unfortunately) have the shoddy base system in my Zed and I've also noticed how frontally biased the system is. To bump up the sound of the rear speakers and to give a little bit of surround I shifted the balance slightly to the back using the radio unit, but of course that has disproportionately decreased the volume of the front speakers. Is there any way to increase the volume of the rear speakers without taking such a massive volume hit from the front ones?

Hi there, not really, since the internal DSP / audio circuits are ‘hard coded’ AFAIK , or certainly needs an A grade coder I think you’re stuck ...the rear speaker feed frequency response is limited as well, I believe..

The Eton type speakers, mid range / tweeter in the door, and co-axial in the outboard rear shoulder positions is the simplest options..

After that the other option is a simple two channel amp taking feeds from the front speakers..feeding the rear speakers with the amps onboard level control?

Or two twin channel amps for front n rear with Eton type speakers...?

[Argyll Andy]

Awesome write up and very informative! I (unfortunately) have the shoddy base system in my Zed and I've also noticed how frontally biased the system is. To bump up the sound of the rear speakers and to give a little bit of surround I shifted the balance slightly to the back using the radio unit, but of course that has disproportionately decreased the volume of the front speakers. Is there any way to increase the volume of the rear speakers without taking such a massive volume hit from the front ones?

Hi there, not really, since the internal DSP / audio circuits are ‘hard coded’ AFAIK , or certainly needs an A grade coder I think you’re stuck ...the rear speaker feed frequency response is limited as well, I believe..

The Eton type speakers, mid range / tweeter in the door, and co-axial in the outboard rear shoulder positions is the simplest options..

After that the other option is a simple two channel amp taking feeds from the front speakers..feeding the rear speakers with the amps onboard level control?

Or two twin channel amps for front n rear with Eton type speakers...?

Yes very informative and interesting, I’m in the same situation as felixlamb but I’m also 99% sure I’ve also got tweeters behind the wing mirrors (no’s 9&10). I’m coming to this conclusion because when previously looking at it a few weeks ago because I’m disappointed in the sound I was trying to work out what system I’ve got. I covered the grills behind the mirrors and the sound reduced. I’ve just gone out and shone a torch into the grill and can see the central silver circles which looks like there are tweeters in there. I definitely don’t have 7 & 8. The panel behind the seats is completely solid.

Re the advice given above would feeding the rears, 5 & 6, from the existing front feeds bypass the hard coded restrictions in places don’t increase volume to the rears? I know it would remove the fader but given that seems to be pretty pointless anyway or is there a specific reason to go down the amp route?

TIA Andy

[Pbondar]

Awesome write up and very informative! I (unfortunately) have the shoddy base system in my Zed and I've also noticed how frontally biased the system is. To bump up the sound of the rear speakers and to give a little bit of surround I shifted the balance slightly to the back using the radio unit, but of course that has disproportionately decreased the volume of the front speakers. Is there any way to increase the volume of the rear speakers without taking such a massive volume hit from the front ones?

Hi there, not really, since the internal DSP / audio circuits are ‘hard coded’ AFAIK , or certainly needs an A grade coder I think you’re stuck ...the rear speaker feed frequency response is limited as well, I believe..

The Eton type speakers, mid range / tweeter in the door, and co-axial in the outboard rear shoulder positions is the simplest options..

After that the other option is a simple two channel amp taking feeds from the front speakers..feeding the rear speakers with the amps onboard level control?

Or two twin channel amps for front n rear with Eton type speakers...?

Yes very informative and interesting, I’m in the same situation as felixlamb but I’m also 99% sure I’ve also got tweeters behind the wing mirrors (no’s 9&10). I’m coming to this conclusion because when previously looking at it a few weeks ago because I’m disappointed in the sound I was trying to work out what system I’ve got. I covered the grills behind the mirrors and the sound reduced. I’ve just gone out and shone a torch into the grill and can see the central silver circles which looks like there are tweeters in there. I definitely don’t have 7 & 8. The panel behind the seats is completely solid.

Re the advice given above would feeding the rears, 5 & 6, from the existing front feeds bypass the hard coded restrictions in places don’t increase volume to the rears? I know it would remove the fader but given that seems to be pretty pointless anyway or is there a specific reason to go down the amp route?

TIA Andy

Hello, unless someone has done an after the car shipped event if you have door tweeters you have either the 676 or 677 amp versions..and hence sub woofers behind the seats..

So it sounds like someone has already twiddled with your audio system, I'm suprised..

You can remove the small plastic tweeter covers with a trim tool to confirm..

Ref feeding rear speakers from the front feeds as well as feeding front speakers:

1) The onboard amp is only 15w per channel so you won't have a lot of go to drive 2 speakers per channel rather than 1
2) Wired in parallel the load the amp sees maybe too low and it could get fried..
3) Wired in series the load the amp sees will be twice as high and teh 15w nominal power per channel will reduce..probably to around 8 watts (guestimate)
4) With a fixed front back ratio you can't adjust any knobs to 'balance' the sound stage

Apart from that its a great idea!

You could try it with some Eton type speakers in series and see?

Alternatively this type of baby will answer your dreams

https://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/alpine- ... zMQAvD_BwE

And if you want to purue a 'better' feed for the rear speakers feed the front channels into a pair of these and the poutputs into the 4 channels and you've arrived!

https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/products ... RoQAvD_BwE

Plenty of knobology to set up your balance/tone etc!

[Argyll Andy]

[/quote]

Hello, unless someone has done an after the car shipped event if you have door tweeters you have either the 676 or 677 amp versions..and hence sub woofers behind the seats..

So it sounds like someone has already twiddled with your audio system, I'm suprised..

You can remove the small plastic tweeter covers with a trim tool to confirm..

Ref feeding rear speakers from the front feeds as well as feeding front speakers:

1) The onboard amp is only 15w per channel so you won't have a lot of go to drive 2 speakers per channel rather than 1
2) Wired in parallel the load the amp sees maybe too low and it could get fried..
3) Wired in series the load the amp sees will be twice as high and teh 15w nominal power per channel will reduce..probably to around 8 watts (guestimate)
4) With a fixed front back ratio you can't adjust any knobs to 'balance' the sound stage

Apart from that its a great idea!

You could try it with some Eton type speakers in series and see?

Alternatively this type of baby will answer your dreams

https://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/alpine- ... zMQAvD_BwE

And if you want to purue a 'better' feed for the rear speakers feed the front channels into a pair of these and the poutputs into the 4 channels and you've arrived!

https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/products ... RoQAvD_BwE

Plenty of knobology to set up your balance/tone etc!
[/quote]

Thanks for telling me so politely that my idea was p!sh

It’s a long time since I’ve done any stereo installs so apologies in advance for some of the stupid/simple questions coming but I’m genuinely interested in this and would if possible like to improve what’s there without spending a loads, this bloody lockdown is costing me a fortune!

The amp in the link is a 4 channel one, would I install that if only running the rears through it or is that for all? If only running the rears would I just need a 2 channel amp? When looking at this one the same site suggested a ‘might be interested in” and it came up the same one just 2 channel.

Are the adapters/cables needed for all of your options or only if running all speakers through it?

I’m also thinking about changing the head unit to a Kenwood with Bluetooth, streaming, phone calls etc. Will that make any difference to this?

Re my own system, I’ve just gone out and had a look so I am giving you the correct info
Pictures
1 this tweeter is behind the door mirrors. I notice on the back it shows 26.05.16 if this is a date then obviously fitted afterwards as the car’s a 59 plate
2 the wiring going to it. Too tight so can’t see if original
3 rear panel behind the seats - no speakers, grills, cut outs, nothing behind me except the factory ones beneath the seatbelt anchor points so if someone has been playing about with it, it only looks like the tweeters have been added
4 head unit which according to vin decoder is original by the looks of it.

[Pbondar]

Hi no worries, not everyone is as sad a bunny as moi..

So it looks like somebody added some tweeters to the front door speakers to get an easy win..

So assuming you have the stripped back basic version your options from here are..

You can fit the 4 channel amp feeding from the front speakers via the y splitters to then feed 4 channels front n back..

Or you can fit a brand new head..if you can get your way around the cosmetic issues in the cabin this works well, you can buy integrated units with plenty of poke thanks to what is called Class D amplifier technology.

You would need to do quite a bit of wiring splicing or find an adapter harness that links the new head input to the existing harness..

I would look at how the tweeters are wired in, they really need a passive crossover to make sure they don’t take too much current, that means a door panel removal..

Is that clear / hope it helps?

[Argyll Andy]

Hi no worries, not everyone is as sad a bunny as moi..

So it looks like somebody added some tweeters to the front door speakers to get an easy win..

So assuming you have the stripped back basic version your options from here are..

You can fit the 4 channel amp feeding from the front speakers via the y splitters to then feed 4 channels front n back..

Or you can fit a brand new head..if you can get your way around the cosmetic issues in the cabin this works well, you can buy integrated units with plenty of poke thanks to what is called Class D amplifier technology.

You would need to do quite a bit of wiring splicing or find an adapter harness that links the new head input to the existing harness..

I would look at how the tweeters are wired in, they really need a passive crossover to make sure they don’t take too much current, that means a door panel removal..

Is that clear / hope it helps?

Thanks again, yes it helps greatly. Do you mean something like this? It was one of the very few that came up when I Googled or do you have something better you’d recommend I look at?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/in-c ... ls_default

Before lockdown I’d been into Halfords looking at dash cams and head units and the guy who’s done a few for me before recommend a Sony (a cheaper one than this) and part of the package he’d priced up for me was a new facia and all wiring/adapters/harnesses to keep all my original functionality, MFSW and warning sounds, PDC’s etc is this the harness you’re talking about rather than splicing anything?

If I’m thinking of changing the head unit anyway to get phone and streaming functionality I wouldn’t mind spending a bit more on a set up like this if it would give the same/better results than retro fitting the Alpine amp.

[Pbondar]

Hi no worries, not everyone is as sad a bunny as moi..

So it looks like somebody added some tweeters to the front door speakers to get an easy win..

So assuming you have the stripped back basic version your options from here are..

You can fit the 4 channel amp feeding from the front speakers via the y splitters to then feed 4 channels front n back..

Or you can fit a brand new head..if you can get your way around the cosmetic issues in the cabin this works well, you can buy integrated units with plenty of poke thanks to what is called Class D amplifier technology.

You would need to do quite a bit of wiring splicing or find an adapter harness that links the new head input to the existing harness..

I would look at how the tweeters are wired in, they really need a passive crossover to make sure they don’t take too much current, that means a door panel removal..

Is that clear / hope it helps?

Thanks again, yes it helps greatly. Do you mean something like this? It was one of the very few that came up when I Googled or do you have something better you’d recommend I look at?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/in-c ... ls_default

Before lockdown I’d been into Halfords looking at dash cams and head units and the guy who’s done a few for me before recommend a Sony (a cheaper one than this) and part of the package he’d priced up for me was a new facia and all wiring/adapters/harnesses to keep all my original functionality, MFSW and warning sounds, PDC’s etc is this the harness you’re talking about rather than splicing anything?

If I’m thinking of changing the head unit anyway to get phone and streaming functionality I wouldn’t mind spending a bit more on a set up like this if it would give the same/better results than retro fitting the Alpine amp.

Hi the Sony unit works well on paper and I'm sure will sound OK subject to the OE speaker quality..

Assuming the harness etc and interfaces and cosmetic work out fine its a good starting point IMHO

You could always use the sub woofer out option to drive a pair of woofers in the footwells and/or upgrade the base speakers..

If you just have the 4 OE or even Eton type replacemenst the base won't be that strong simply because of their size..

However law of diminishing returns etc so my view would be :

1) Sony unit try that
2) Eton type speakers try that
3) Woofers in footwell and amp using Sony sub out put

IMHO

[Argyll Andy]

Hi no worries, not everyone is as sad a bunny as moi..

So it looks like somebody added some tweeters to the front door speakers to get an easy win..

So assuming you have the stripped back basic version your options from here are..

You can fit the 4 channel amp feeding from the front speakers via the y splitters to then feed 4 channels front n back..

Or you can fit a brand new head..if you can get your way around the cosmetic issues in the cabin this works well, you can buy integrated units with plenty of poke thanks to what is called Class D amplifier technology.

You would need to do quite a bit of wiring splicing or find an adapter harness that links the new head input to the existing harness..

I would look at how the tweeters are wired in, they really need a passive crossover to make sure they don’t take too much current, that means a door panel removal..

Is that clear / hope it helps?

Thanks again, yes it helps greatly. Do you mean something like this? It was one of the very few that came up when I Googled or do you have something better you’d recommend I look at?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/in-c ... ls_default

Before lockdown I’d been into Halfords looking at dash cams and head units and the guy who’s done a few for me before recommend a Sony (a cheaper one than this) and part of the package he’d priced up for me was a new facia and all wiring/adapters/harnesses to keep all my original functionality, MFSW and warning sounds, PDC’s etc is this the harness you’re talking about rather than splicing anything?

If I’m thinking of changing the head unit anyway to get phone and streaming functionality I wouldn’t mind spending a bit more on a set up like this if it would give the same/better results than retro fitting the Alpine amp.

Hi the Sony unit works well on paper and I'm sure will sound OK subject to the OE speaker quality..

Assuming the harness etc and interfaces and cosmetic work out fine its a good starting point IMHO

You could always use the sub woofer out option to drive a pair of woofers in the footwells and/or upgrade the base speakers..

If you just have the 4 OE or even Eton type replacemenst the base won't be that strong simply because of their size..

However law of diminishing returns etc so my view would be :

1) Sony unit try that
2) Eton type speakers try that
3) Woofers in footwell and amp using Sony sub out put

IMHO

Thank you, I’ll start having a good looks those options.

I may need to come back to you at a later date if that’s ok.

[Pbondar]

Thanks again, yes it helps greatly. Do you mean something like this? It was one of the very few that came up when I Googled or do you have something better you’d recommend I look at?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/in-c ... ls_default

Before lockdown I’d been into Halfords looking at dash cams and head units and the guy who’s done a few for me before recommend a Sony (a cheaper one than this) and part of the package he’d priced up for me was a new facia and all wiring/adapters/harnesses to keep all my original functionality, MFSW and warning sounds, PDC’s etc is this the harness you’re talking about rather than splicing anything?

If I’m thinking of changing the head unit anyway to get phone and streaming functionality I wouldn’t mind spending a bit more on a set up like this if it would give the same/better results than retro fitting the Alpine amp.

Hi the Sony unit works well on paper and I'm sure will sound OK subject to the OE speaker quality..

Assuming the harness etc and interfaces and cosmetic work out fine its a good starting point IMHO

You could always use the sub woofer out option to drive a pair of woofers in the footwells and/or upgrade the base speakers..

If you just have the 4 OE or even Eton type replacemenst the base won't be that strong simply because of their size..

However law of diminishing returns etc so my view would be :

1) Sony unit try that
2) Eton type speakers try that
3) Woofers in footwell and amp using Sony sub out put

IMHO

Thank you, I’ll start having a good looks those options.

I may need to come back to you at a later date if that’s ok.