EVs

[Ole gits rule]

So SWMBO drives an EV - DS3 Crossback E-Tense so a small SUV style.

The car was purchased used at 24 months old, so still had 12mths warranty and 6 years or 70K miles the battery and motor, the reason we purchased it was not to save the planet (although it does help very minimally after manufacturing the thing), the car is an Ultra Prestige and has watch strap leather, LED Matrix lights / HUD etc. was £17K where as a bottom of the range alternative ICE version was £18k.

Regards running costs, her old DS3 Crossback was doing 40mpg and at £6 a gallon £24 for 160 miles, the EV does similar mileage for £12 using standard electric rates, I purchased a Ohmie charger and now do the same distance for £2.50 using Octopus Intelligent (Plus use the low rate to run all my white goods at night).

The car is charged once per week, twice at an absolute push so the saving can be pretty good but the car is no good for long distance so use the M4 for that.

Zero road tax (at present), servicing every 2 years as opposed to every year, so for us it makes sense.

I agree that its horses for courses and if we only had one car then it would be the M4 - its my hobby plus we need to travel 300 miles a few times a year.

EVs wont suit everyone so buy what's suits your needs, certain you tube channels just hate EVs (Geoff buys car for example) and think its a conspiracy to control us - people will decide what right in the long term.

[TitanTim]

I agree that its horses for courses and if we only had one car then it would be the M4 - its my hobby plus we need to travel 300 miles a few times a year.

I think that's the nail on the head for most on here who have other cars at their disposal that most likely aren't the best for the environment. It crossed my mind how this thread would fare if all of a sudden the Govenment announces petrol and diesel fuels will be banned from next year giving you no choice but to go the EV route. I know unlikely for years but makes you think

Tim.

[Pondrew]

It crossed my mind how this thread would fare if all of a sudden the Govenment announces petrol and diesel fuels will be banned from next year giving you no choice but to go the EV route. I know unlikely for years but makes you think

There would be riots and serious civil disobedience. I would be joining the riots as I could do with a new TV!

[pvr]

I would start a red diesel filtering company and sell home heating oil for diesel

[True-Blue]

I agree that its horses for courses and if we only had one car then it would be the M4 - its my hobby plus we need to travel 300 miles a few times a year.

I think that's the nail on the head for most on here who have other cars at their disposal that most likely aren't the best for the environment. It crossed my mind how this thread would fare if all of a sudden the Govenment announces petrol and diesel fuels will be banned from next year giving you no choice but to go the EV route. I know unlikely for years but makes you think

Tim.

The Economy would collapse almost immediately as a very high percentage of the population couldn’t get to work, or the shops.

The people who could afford an EV would have an insane lead time and, even if supply was sufficient, the national grid would be fried overnight.

So many reason why this kind of change would need to be phased in over decades.

[True-Blue]

It crossed my mind how this thread would fare if all of a sudden the Govenment announces petrol and diesel fuels will be banned from next year giving you no choice but to go the EV route. I know unlikely for years but makes you think

There would be riots and serious civil disobedience. I would be joining the riots as I could do with a new TV!

Good luck watching that with the power cuts and electricity prices in this scenario…

Better off looting a solar panel supplier

[Nanu]

Or rob a bank and move abroad

Not sure what the arguments are in other countries but when we were in Northern Italy in the Autumn, never noticed a single EV or a public charging point.

[k755]

I agree was in Crete in Sep and did not see any charging points whilst touring the island and saw one Tesla!

[Nanu]

Don't want to hijack the thread but also wondered if other countries are suffering all the woke stuff and gender issues we are.

Perhaps one for another thread whereby our members from foreign climes could provide an insight?

Meanwhile back to EVs and how c**p they are (Just to return the thread to it's original topic

[Bmwz4ruby]

My better half has a BMW i4 35. She has it because her work offered very good deal and she saves paying some 40% income tax by doing so. It’s a nice car with a good spec but she would rather have picked a diesel (they aren’t doing any on the company scheme). The range is not the best and for that reason it would never suit me (even with twice the range). At Christmas we took it on a 240 miles each way journey, it was charged 100% at home, then needed charging at the 160 miles point which cost £29. We then charged it at destination and then again at the same charging station on the way home, leaving us 160 miles to run. A couple of other points, we had to do between 65-68 mph on the motorway to retain sensible battery use and the stops for charging took 40 mins.

My car, remapped 330d does a minimum of 600 miles to a tank, usually 650. It takes 5 minutes to fill and I cruise at 77 mph (indicted). That one journey in the i4 took circa 80 mins longer than doing it in the 330d. It also cost about the same as using the diesel due to the extortionate charging costs at service stations.

I travel the same journey every 2 weeks. So summing up: an EV as they exist now does not suit me at all, they are also shockingly expensive to buy and it feels like they will be worthless after 5 years of ownership.
It does however suit my other half doing school runs, shopping, local journeys etc. It only costs about £5 to fill from 20 to 80% and will do 120-140 miles.

It’s horses for courses but can’t see me ever wanting one (even if they did get a lot better). I don’t think they are the answer or better for the environment or they will ever take a majority stake if the market.

[coldel]

I totally agree there are benefits in some cases right now vs not, EV are still relatively in their infancy vs ICE which is very much a mature technology. Clearly EV will have plenty more to come in terms of development as the big brands really get on board, considering EV development has been done almost solely by one US company for 15 years or so are we even remotely surprised they are still expensive. We need to put to bed the myth that they are not better for the environment, they clearly are, plenty of life cycle studies show this.

However, as mentioned way back, its not in our nature to give up the conveniences we have, that is the biggest problem. We want an EV that does ICE and some more, we aren't willing to compromise on what we have. Clearly prices need to come down on EVs, and they will, and charging needs to be faster and more convenient. The RMI is modelling out costs of EV ownership to halve by 2030 for example, ICE is only going one direction and that's up.

My general list is I think....

Pros
Start of a human behaviour change to cleaner energy consumption and use
Lower carbon footprint
Localised pollution reduced, especially in dense cities
Tied with green energy production in theory this type of transport has no finite lifespan like ICE
Obvious tax implications, and other associated cost breaks such as VED

Cons
Initial outlay is still too high
Not enough charging infrastructure
Charging takes too long
Battery replacement is expensive

Dont get me wrong, I love taking the Z4 out and no EV would replace that weekend car driving experience, but other journeys are just dull commuting/motorway type ones, happily take an EV. The main issue for me right now is the cons above, I dont have a driveway, I cant charge anywhere near my house.

[Nanu]

Just to point out that one of the big Pros, tax, will disappear when they replace VED and fuel duty with pay per mile which looks like will be implemented by Sadiq Khan soon

[pvr]

It is a weird thought that charging at home costs a fraction of charging at a public station (that also attracts 20% VAT). It is a bit like having petrol at two different prices, how is that ever going to work when some can’t charge at home

[coldel]

Just to point out that one of the big Pros, tax, will disappear when they replace VED and fuel duty with pay per mile which looks like will be implemented by Sadiq Khan soon

Really? I am not sure the Mayor of London can implement a country wide taxation change, thats government policy. I tried googling this and there is an article from September 2023 saying the opposite in fact, that he wants to rule out pay per mile charging as he has ULEZ in place.

[coldel]

It is a weird thought that charging at home costs a fraction of charging at a public station (that also attracts 20% VAT). It is a bit like having petrol at two different prices, how is that ever going to work when some can’t charge at home

I guess if we had 99Ron fuel pumped directly to our houses to use in cars and other appliances it would be a fraction of the price of what a petrol station charges also. But yes, can see how it does work well for some and not for others - petrol is only available in a single place i.e. the forecourts so we all pay the expensive price, whereas electricity is expensive and cheap.