Roof issue

[andymorris]

Got a 2009 e89 where roof has been working ok until yesterday. when pressing the open roof button the rear screen only lifts up about a foot and then we get the flashing red light. I can only close it by locking the car and it goes back down. I can then only close the windows by pressing and holding the key fob middle button. There must be a sensor/microswitch issue here but i don;t have an OBD tool to read which one is at fault. Ive read loads of posts but none seem to relate to very partial opening of the roof. What obd scanner is best to isolate the relevant microswitch or has anyone had this particular issue and can advise which switch is faulty. Thanks in advance.

 

[Smartbear]

When did you last change the salmon relays? That’s a good place to start along with getting the battery tested, is that the original item from new?
Rob

 

[andymorris]

Hi Rob
Battery is stamped 2019 so should be ok. Took out the salmon relays and they are not date marked so not sure when/if they were changed. I've only had the car a few months. Connected another car to the z4 battery and tried again. no change the rear window is jerking uo and down trying to open and is about 6 inches away from the boot. Now I have the boot locked and the windows stuck open, presumably because the car thinks the rear window is not fully closed although its dropped down to the boot lid. With all the sensors and microswitches wouldn't it be better to get an OBD tool and find out the codes which can point to the faulty item rather than change the salmon relays or are they the things that start the roof opening process? Thanks for your help.

 

[Chippie]

The salmon relays provided to high current power for the hydraulic pump, over time to relays can fuse together and will not cut the power to the pump causing the motor to burn out, expensive fix for the sake of a couple of relays.

 

[AnubisZed]

Check for hydraulic leaks as well, as a lack of fluid "can" cause this to happen. Check the resevoiur attached to the roof motor (next to the battery). Lift it up and look for the markings on the side of the tank.

If you've got plenty of fluid, the battery is newish, nothing wrong in changing the relays (but that wouldn't be this issue) then you're looking at the control circuit. Now there are a number of microswitches that all need to work perfectly to do their job, now finding the one at fault can be a bit of a nightmare. You should also check for any moisture in and around the control module (CTM). This is located on the right side in the boot area under the trim panels.
I've uploaded the SmartTop installation manual to my Box account, here...
https://app.box.com/s/14dx1pb3dcdsoa9ixbr9zznoxq79z6le

Open it up and go to page 4, it'll show you how to remove the trim, unfortuneatly you won't be able to place the roof in service mode though so it will be very tricky to gain access.

 

[Stevo1987]

Check for hydraulic leaks as well, as a lack of fluid "can" cause this to happen. Check the resevoiur attached to the roof motor (next to the battery). Lift it up and look for the markings on the side of the tank.

If you've got plenty of fluid, the battery is newish, nothing wrong in changing the relays (but that wouldn't be this issue) then you're looking at the control circuit. Now there are a number of microswitches that all need to work perfectly to do their job, now finding the one at fault can be a bit of a nightmare. You should also check for any moisture in and around the control module (CTM). This is located on the right side in the boot area under the trim panels.
I've uploaded the SmartTop installation manual to my Box account, here...
https://app.box.com/s/14dx1pb3dcdsoa9ixbr9zznoxq79z6le

Open it up and go to page 4, it'll show you how to remove the trim, unfortuneatly you won't be able to place the roof in service mode though so it will be very tricky to gain access.

A bit tricky now he can't open the boot. I have the same issue. I know some OBD scanners will enable one to open the boot if locked. It appears mine doesn't let me do that. Creator C310+.

 

[AnubisZed]

There is a way to open the boot even if it's locked by the failed roof operation.

Train of thought no/1 - Somewhat dodgy types could use this method to gain access to someone's locked boot if the roof is open.

Train of thought no/2 - If the roof is up and the car is locked then you'd need the key to access this method, so other than breaking a window (and the alarm going off) then you wouldn't be able to do it (and it's not rasy to get at!).

So this is what you have to do....
1) In the passenger footwell, unscrew the 3 Phillips head screws and remove the kick panel.
2) Disconnect the plug coupler for the Junction box (long 47 pin plug plugged into the underside of the fusebox).
3) Find pin 12 on the plug. Using a length of wire tap this to a live fuse and you'll hear the boot unlock. You may need to do this a couple of times.
4) Reconnect the plug coupler and put everything else back as it was.

 

[B21]

There is a way to open the boot even if it's locked by the failed roof operation.

Train of thought no/1 - Somewhat dodgy types could use this method to gain access to someone's locked boot if the roof is open.

Train of thought no/2 - If the roof is up and the car is locked then you'd need the key to access this method, so other than breaking a window (and the alarm going off) then you wouldn't be able to do it (and it's not rasy to get at!).

So this is what you have to do....
1) In the passenger footwell, unscrew the 3 Phillips head screws and remove the kick panel.
2) Disconnect the plug coupler for the Junction box (long 47 pin plug plugged into the underside of the fusebox).
3) Find pin 12 on the plug. Using a length of wire tap this to a live fuse and you'll hear the boot unlock. You may need to do this a couple of times.
4) Reconnect the plug coupler and put everything else back as it was.

Another learning day

 

[enuff_zed]

There is a way to open the boot even if it's locked by the failed roof operation.

Train of thought no/1 - Somewhat dodgy types could use this method to gain access to someone's locked boot if the roof is open.

Train of thought no/2 - If the roof is up and the car is locked then you'd need the key to access this method, so other than breaking a window (and the alarm going off) then you wouldn't be able to do it (and it's not rasy to get at!).

So this is what you have to do....
1) In the passenger footwell, unscrew the 3 Phillips head screws and remove the kick panel.
2) Disconnect the plug coupler for the Junction box (long 47 pin plug plugged into the underside of the fusebox).
3) Find pin 12 on the plug. Using a length of wire tap this to a live fuse and you'll hear the boot unlock. You may need to do this a couple of times.
4) Reconnect the plug coupler and put everything else back as it was.

Little bit of a hijack, sorry.
Would this mean that if you got hold of a boot release switch (I believe there is a marked space for it on the driver's side) then you could take a live feed to that, run a wire from it to the passenger footwell, and splice a line into the wire for pin 12 to give you the easy option, as per the E85?

 

[AnubisZed]

There is a way to open the boot even if it's locked by the failed roof operation.

Train of thought no/1 - Somewhat dodgy types could use this method to gain access to someone's locked boot if the roof is open.

Train of thought no/2 - If the roof is up and the car is locked then you'd need the key to access this method, so other than breaking a window (and the alarm going off) then you wouldn't be able to do it (and it's not rasy to get at!).

So this is what you have to do....
1) In the passenger footwell, unscrew the 3 Phillips head screws and remove the kick panel.
2) Disconnect the plug coupler for the Junction box (long 47 pin plug plugged into the underside of the fusebox).
3) Find pin 12 on the plug. Using a length of wire tap this to a live fuse and you'll hear the boot unlock. You may need to do this a couple of times.
4) Reconnect the plug coupler and put everything else back as it was.

Little bit of a hijack, sorry.
Would this mean that if you got hold of a boot release switch (I believe there is a marked space for it on the driver's side) then you could take a live feed to that, run a wire from it to the passenger footwell, and splice a line into the wire for pin 12 to give you the easy option, as per the E85?

Yes, but id choosea fuse that is only live with the key in

 

[Zed Baron]

Apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree... can't you put the key in the ignition and press the central locking button a couple of times to open the boot?

 

[B21]

Apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree... can't you put the key in the ignition and press the central locking button a couple of times to open the boot?

Only if the roof pack is correctly stowed and not in transit and no faults are present…this is a discussion of overcoming no access due to above faults…

 

[enuff_zed]

Apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree... can't you put the key in the ignition and press the central locking button a couple of times to open the boot?

Only if the roof pack is correctly stowed and not in transit and no faults are present…this is a discussion of overcoming no access due to above faults…

Yes Peter, we could fit the button and put a black & yellow striped box round it. :wink:

 

[B21]

Apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree... can't you put the key in the ignition and press the central locking button a couple of times to open the boot?

Only if the roof pack is correctly stowed and not in transit and no faults are present…this is a discussion of overcoming no access due to above faults…

Yes Peter, we could fit the button and put a black & yellow striped box round it. :wink:

Would like to add a guard and flip to access too! :rofl:

 

[AnubisZed]

:rofl:

 

[Stevo1987]

There is a way to open the boot even if it's locked by the failed roof operation.

Train of thought no/1 - Somewhat dodgy types could use this method to gain access to someone's locked boot if the roof is open.


Train of thought no/2 - If the roof is up and the car is locked then you'd need the key to access this method, so other than breaking a window (and the alarm going off) then you wouldn't be able to do it (and it's not rasy to get at!).

So this is what you have to do....
1) In the passenger footwell, unscrew the 3 Phillips head screws and remove the kick panel.
2) Disconnect the plug coupler for the Junction box (long 47 pin plug plugged into the underside of the fusebox).
3) Find pin 12 on the plug. Using a length of wire tap this to a live fuse and you'll hear the boot unlock. You may need to do this a couple of times.
4) Reconnect the plug coupler and put everything else back as it was.

Little bit of a hijack, sorry.
Would this mean that if you got hold of a boot release switch (I believe there is a marked space for it on the driver's side) then you could take a live feed to that, run a wire from it to the passenger footwell, and splice a line into the wire for pin 12 to give you the easy option, as per the E85?

Yes, but id choosea fuse that is only live with the key in

Cool. Thanks for this. When I get a moment I'll give it a go. Is there any risk of breaking something else?

 

[Smartbear]

Little bit of a hijack, sorry.
Would this mean that if you got hold of a boot release switch (I believe there is a marked space for it on the driver's side) then you could take a live feed to that, run a wire from it to the passenger footwell, and splice a line into the wire for pin 12 to give you the easy option, as per the E85?

Yes, but id choosea fuse that is only live with the key in

Cool. Thanks for this. When I get a moment I'll give it a go. Is there any risk of breaking something else?

Only your back, the e89 fuse panel is notoriously awkward to access unless you’re double jointed
Rob

 

[andymorris]

Thanks for all the advice. I will get the boot open as described and I have an OBD scanner coming today so hopefully that will highlight which sensor is faulty and go from there. Cheers

 

[AnubisZed]

How to gain access to the fusebox...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-I2KSQxYb8&t=1168s

 

[RobbiZ4]

Interesting, that this post was placed in the discussion section.

when pressing the open roof button the rear screen only lifts up about a foot and then we get the flashing red light

This is the "classic" broken wire in the rear roof shell, nothing else.
No OBD scanner is required, no battery check or sth. else will help in this case. Off course, getting the boot lid open will be a plus for working on this issue.

As you guys already know - the wires will break on both sides. So it doesn't matter to identify the current side. You have to fix both sides to be safe for the next 5-10 years (until a hydraulic hose will break - and yes, it will break).