[ref]pvr[/ref], you previously mentioned about the sport exhaust is a must and it's hard to retrofit. I found an approved used 991.1 S coupe that I'm interested in. On the original spec sheet, it doesn't have the sport exhaust. But it has the exhaust button and the dealer system shows it's supplied and retrofitted by an porsche center back in 2016. I'm wondering whether this is a positive thing, or whether it's actually a bad thing so I should pass this car? Will this make the car hard to sell in the future?
>
Trade in G29 for a 911?
- Thread starter q96169we
- Start date
Sort of narrow down to one of these models (picture taken during a trackday, except the Z4, the other two are not the exact car available to be purchased) based on my budget and market availability and all the advice I’ve received so far. Just give some comments on these three cars as you see it in the photo
From left to right, they are 718 GT4, 2012 991.1 Carrera S PDK, my current Z4 m40i
Rough market value: £75k, £55k, £35k
From left to right, they are 718 GT4, 2012 991.1 Carrera S PDK, my current Z4 m40i
Rough market value: £75k, £55k, £35k
They are pretty different and the GT4 is a much harder car to live with, interesting the pivot tbh.
The 991 is the best of the bunch imo. Get the GT4 if you're tracking it but if you want a car that is usable I think you will be disappointed and the gearing is really high which is a common complaint.
The 991 is the best of the bunch imo. Get the GT4 if you're tracking it but if you want a car that is usable I think you will be disappointed and the gearing is really high which is a common complaint.
I will wade in. My Porsche ownership was all manuals 993 c2, 993 c4, 997GTS, 981Spyder, 987.2 S Boxster, 991.2 GTS PDK, 981 Boxster 2.7. Lots of other stuff in between. The 911 is sort of a thing you have to do but in my honest opinion they are overrated, the pick was the manual 997gts and the biggest let down the 991.2 GTS pdk. The best road drivers are the Boxsters imo but they have to be manual for me. The one that made the biggest impression was the 981 spyder. I had a 718 4.0 on order but cancelled it - not for me. The one to get is 981 GTS manual imo and what I would buy if i was to go back again a friend has one so i know it quite well - he traded a G29 M40 to buy it and prefers it.
I wouldnt touch a 911 cabriolet just buy a better boxster. If it must be a 911 then go tin top N/A my money would go 997.2 GTS 2wd or 991.1GTS. Avoid GT4 it really isnt a great road car.
I wouldnt touch a 911 cabriolet just buy a better boxster. If it must be a 911 then go tin top N/A my money would go 997.2 GTS 2wd or 991.1GTS. Avoid GT4 it really isnt a great road car.
[ref]tomscott[/ref], [ref]legin[/ref], [ref]pvr[/ref],
Some questions to three of you since you all seems to have extensive experience with 911. Background of these question is that I'm looking at a 2012 991.1 C2S PDK Coupe from OPC which has done about 35k miles and it's about £53k :headbang: . It has all the must have options as pvr previously highlighted. So I'm seriously considering this specific one and booked the test drive on Friday.
1. Any concern I should have when it comes to owning an old porsche that's approaching the age limit of porsche warranty (kind of a sign that porsche and its warranty underwritter think it's too risky to cover old car)?
2. I know each car is different but should I be prepared for any huge bill in terms of maintenance for a 911 at this age?
3. I learnt so far that 991.1 and the 9A1+PDK are in general quite solid. It doesn't suffer from IMS,RMS,bore scoring, etc. However, any other thing I should watch out for (e.g the COV-change over valve)?
4. This one is to [ref]pvr[/ref], your 991 50th years edition has the same engine. How many COV have you changed so far? Do you know roughly how much they cost? I know there are many COV and some are cheap and some are expensive depending on how easy to access them. But just a rough cost range will be fine, if you know it.
5. Assuming I will own this car for 2+ years and doing about 5k miles per year, will it make big difference in terms of resale value if I start using specialist (any good recommandation as well)? What I'm currently thinking is using OPC for regular service and if any expensive fault occurs, I use specialist with original parts. Will this make sense to you, or whether your advice would be to either keep using OPC for everything, or switch to specialist completely?
Some questions to three of you since you all seems to have extensive experience with 911. Background of these question is that I'm looking at a 2012 991.1 C2S PDK Coupe from OPC which has done about 35k miles and it's about £53k :headbang: . It has all the must have options as pvr previously highlighted. So I'm seriously considering this specific one and booked the test drive on Friday.
1. Any concern I should have when it comes to owning an old porsche that's approaching the age limit of porsche warranty (kind of a sign that porsche and its warranty underwritter think it's too risky to cover old car)?
2. I know each car is different but should I be prepared for any huge bill in terms of maintenance for a 911 at this age?
3. I learnt so far that 991.1 and the 9A1+PDK are in general quite solid. It doesn't suffer from IMS,RMS,bore scoring, etc. However, any other thing I should watch out for (e.g the COV-change over valve)?
4. This one is to [ref]pvr[/ref], your 991 50th years edition has the same engine. How many COV have you changed so far? Do you know roughly how much they cost? I know there are many COV and some are cheap and some are expensive depending on how easy to access them. But just a rough cost range will be fine, if you know it.
5. Assuming I will own this car for 2+ years and doing about 5k miles per year, will it make big difference in terms of resale value if I start using specialist (any good recommandation as well)? What I'm currently thinking is using OPC for regular service and if any expensive fault occurs, I use specialist with original parts. Will this make sense to you, or whether your advice would be to either keep using OPC for everything, or switch to specialist completely?
The pick of the bunch would also be a 997 GTS. Incredible cars but I would want a full leather interior I hate Alcantara and can't understand why people like it.
I would also have a 991 GTS. They are both seen as the best of the models outside the GT3 so come as a premium.
The only thing with the GTS is it gets this "halo" appreciation making them expensive. All a GTS consists of is the greatest hits of the model so basically a spec pack, and originally was to get rid of all the extra stock at the end of a model which is where the original 997 GTS came from. Now its the only one people want so comes earlier on in the cycle. You also get a modified induction system on the NA cars that gives 15-20hp. The 991 my dad has is basically a GTS spec without the induction kit is specced to the nines, fabulous car.
Something to bare in mind, I know from a purist perspective its not seen as a particularly sought after option... but if you don't want to pay targa prices with the compromise that comes with that but you like the convertible but also worried about value... The panoramic roof is a great compromise on the coupe. Yes it adds weight in an undesirable place but it is completely retractable so you get most of the benefit of a targa minus the looks, its better from a looks and value perspective over the convertible.
Everything that's true about the Z4 is true in the 911, it is a small cabin and can feel claustrophobic especially if you opt for an all black interior. The pan roof adds a lot of light making it much more pleasant place to be. Pretty sure PVR has a Pan roof too for these reasons.
My dad also has a 981 Boxster GTS, it's a great car but for me too predictable and to me feels like it could do with a bit more power. The 981 chassis can handle more than 335hp and it feels it. In the twisties it's very fast and you can't fault it, I just don't like the fact it is so predictable but that's a personal thing. I like the raw feel of the Z4M and the 911 is very similar especially the 997 but they are old cars now.
Main thing I love about the 981 is the looks its a stunning car imo.
The 4.0 GTS has solved this issue and they are very well renowned, we also had one on order and cancelled it. Ideally my dad wants to consolidate into a Turbo S but its a big outlay and whether its worth it is to be debated, one trick ponies, too quick for the road etc
Personally im not sold on the manual only, yes its great and Porsche manuals are like bolt action rifles but the PDK is fabulous and since getting the first one the 991 and the 981 are PDKs and really suit it. The newer manuals in the 991 onward have auto rev match which drives me insane not sure if you can turn it off or not.
The other thing on a cruise the 991 turns the engine down and we've had 40mpg on a motorway run its really a great all rounder. Sure the newer ones have this too.
Me and dad both like red... some will love some will hate but the red interior is a super rare option on the GTS as they call come Alcantara standard.
We used them at my wedding was great to have them all out and my wife came in a 981 Cayman which was lovely too in guards red.
In terms of issues with the cars there are a couple of well known issues that can be avoided without much issue. Something to bear in mind, if your looking at cars that are in the 997 or even 991 territory suspension elements might be worth checking the suspension on the 996 needed a refresh but its very costly and is probably why I didnt enjoy it as much, it felt quite wafty rather than tight and planted. Same with all older cars. If an older one is on the radar then it might be worth seeing what the forums are saying about elements worth looking at and have a contingency.
We've had the 991 since 2015 so nearly 10 years in that time outside normal servicing and tyres the only two issue we've had is the PSE sports exhaust flap rusted so this was repaired - its a pretty common issue but wasnt cheap. The air con condensers failed, generally the life span is 6-8 years as they are at the front of the car and get stone damage, tiny fractures mean they fail and the aircon stops working. They also tend to be a place leaves and other detritus end up causing corrosion if not cleaned regularly etc . Again is another common issue both were replaced. You can install have Zunsport grills which help. Ive heard on the Porsche pages that if they are installed Porsche won't give extended warranties because of reduced airflow which is complete BS but welcome to the Porsche world.
The Boxster GTS unfortunately the adaptive engine mounts failed which is a costly expense and seemingly can happen at any time... problem with these very electronic cars... Otherwise nothing but only had this 2 years and its done very little milage.
The 997 had a few electrical gremlins which ended up being battery related but they do seem to have a few electric gremlins. The heater stopped working and that was down to the HVAC module so a new one repaired that, it also had its air con condensers fail. Common issue is rust around the exhaust and the bolts on the 997 were like mush so those were sorted.
The 996 4S had a lot of work but it was 20 years old, the brake lines were replaced which means dropping the sub frame which was expensive. The 996 also had the RMS and IMS done, the convertibles can also suffer with rust in the door jams and at the top of the windshield when the hard top is on the car as water sits in the channels, it was minor and that was sorted too. It had 35ks worth of maintenance paperwork with it... over its life and we probably spent 5k on it.
Main thing is they seem to go through tyres the 996 4S would wear through its rears in 6-8k but again the convertibles are heavy. Another nuance that they all do is the front end crabs on full lock, this is normal and the car isnt broken :rofl:
Others will disagree and have other experiences. If you have a really good indy and trust them I feel like the extended warranties aren't worth the money. There is some expense here but non of these would be covered under warranty anyway. Otherwise they are really well built reliable cars they just don't like to sit like any car.
Ive spent much more on my Z4M than my dad has on any of the Porsches he's had in the same timeframe both my roady and coupe.
Luck of the draw. You will find prices are all over the place and I would stick to the higher end because they tend to have been looked after properly.
I bought a 987.1 3.2 Boxster it was lovely 70k extended leather chrono Bose etc it needed some obvious things like discs and pads but I had bit of a spongy clutch and it had a slight ticking sometimes its lifters and it was only on the drivers side. Anyway had it inspected at the indy and basically they borescoped it and it had borescore, the RMS was leaking and slowly oil had made its way onto the clutch and flywheel. Turned out the cost to sort was about 12.5k and I payed 11.25 for it.
Lesson learned! Don't buy cheap as there isnt such a thing as a cheap Porsche! You pay for it in the long term.
The main difficulty with a buying a used Porsche is everything is an extra so finding the right car is really hard. Also most come in black, grey, silver or white... I like the blues and reds but there aren't many more colourful options around then finding one with the right seats, sound system, chrono etc can be a bit tiring! Took my dad 2 years to find the 991 the 981 was a bit of an impulse purchase but is also specced to the nines.
I would also have a 991 GTS. They are both seen as the best of the models outside the GT3 so come as a premium.
The only thing with the GTS is it gets this "halo" appreciation making them expensive. All a GTS consists of is the greatest hits of the model so basically a spec pack, and originally was to get rid of all the extra stock at the end of a model which is where the original 997 GTS came from. Now its the only one people want so comes earlier on in the cycle. You also get a modified induction system on the NA cars that gives 15-20hp. The 991 my dad has is basically a GTS spec without the induction kit is specced to the nines, fabulous car.
Something to bare in mind, I know from a purist perspective its not seen as a particularly sought after option... but if you don't want to pay targa prices with the compromise that comes with that but you like the convertible but also worried about value... The panoramic roof is a great compromise on the coupe. Yes it adds weight in an undesirable place but it is completely retractable so you get most of the benefit of a targa minus the looks, its better from a looks and value perspective over the convertible.
Everything that's true about the Z4 is true in the 911, it is a small cabin and can feel claustrophobic especially if you opt for an all black interior. The pan roof adds a lot of light making it much more pleasant place to be. Pretty sure PVR has a Pan roof too for these reasons.
My dad also has a 981 Boxster GTS, it's a great car but for me too predictable and to me feels like it could do with a bit more power. The 981 chassis can handle more than 335hp and it feels it. In the twisties it's very fast and you can't fault it, I just don't like the fact it is so predictable but that's a personal thing. I like the raw feel of the Z4M and the 911 is very similar especially the 997 but they are old cars now.
Main thing I love about the 981 is the looks its a stunning car imo.
The 4.0 GTS has solved this issue and they are very well renowned, we also had one on order and cancelled it. Ideally my dad wants to consolidate into a Turbo S but its a big outlay and whether its worth it is to be debated, one trick ponies, too quick for the road etc
Personally im not sold on the manual only, yes its great and Porsche manuals are like bolt action rifles but the PDK is fabulous and since getting the first one the 991 and the 981 are PDKs and really suit it. The newer manuals in the 991 onward have auto rev match which drives me insane not sure if you can turn it off or not.
The other thing on a cruise the 991 turns the engine down and we've had 40mpg on a motorway run its really a great all rounder. Sure the newer ones have this too.
Me and dad both like red... some will love some will hate but the red interior is a super rare option on the GTS as they call come Alcantara standard.
We used them at my wedding was great to have them all out and my wife came in a 981 Cayman which was lovely too in guards red.
In terms of issues with the cars there are a couple of well known issues that can be avoided without much issue. Something to bear in mind, if your looking at cars that are in the 997 or even 991 territory suspension elements might be worth checking the suspension on the 996 needed a refresh but its very costly and is probably why I didnt enjoy it as much, it felt quite wafty rather than tight and planted. Same with all older cars. If an older one is on the radar then it might be worth seeing what the forums are saying about elements worth looking at and have a contingency.
We've had the 991 since 2015 so nearly 10 years in that time outside normal servicing and tyres the only two issue we've had is the PSE sports exhaust flap rusted so this was repaired - its a pretty common issue but wasnt cheap. The air con condensers failed, generally the life span is 6-8 years as they are at the front of the car and get stone damage, tiny fractures mean they fail and the aircon stops working. They also tend to be a place leaves and other detritus end up causing corrosion if not cleaned regularly etc . Again is another common issue both were replaced. You can install have Zunsport grills which help. Ive heard on the Porsche pages that if they are installed Porsche won't give extended warranties because of reduced airflow which is complete BS but welcome to the Porsche world.
The Boxster GTS unfortunately the adaptive engine mounts failed which is a costly expense and seemingly can happen at any time... problem with these very electronic cars... Otherwise nothing but only had this 2 years and its done very little milage.
The 997 had a few electrical gremlins which ended up being battery related but they do seem to have a few electric gremlins. The heater stopped working and that was down to the HVAC module so a new one repaired that, it also had its air con condensers fail. Common issue is rust around the exhaust and the bolts on the 997 were like mush so those were sorted.
The 996 4S had a lot of work but it was 20 years old, the brake lines were replaced which means dropping the sub frame which was expensive. The 996 also had the RMS and IMS done, the convertibles can also suffer with rust in the door jams and at the top of the windshield when the hard top is on the car as water sits in the channels, it was minor and that was sorted too. It had 35ks worth of maintenance paperwork with it... over its life and we probably spent 5k on it.
Main thing is they seem to go through tyres the 996 4S would wear through its rears in 6-8k but again the convertibles are heavy. Another nuance that they all do is the front end crabs on full lock, this is normal and the car isnt broken :rofl:
Others will disagree and have other experiences. If you have a really good indy and trust them I feel like the extended warranties aren't worth the money. There is some expense here but non of these would be covered under warranty anyway. Otherwise they are really well built reliable cars they just don't like to sit like any car.
Ive spent much more on my Z4M than my dad has on any of the Porsches he's had in the same timeframe both my roady and coupe.
Luck of the draw. You will find prices are all over the place and I would stick to the higher end because they tend to have been looked after properly.
I bought a 987.1 3.2 Boxster it was lovely 70k extended leather chrono Bose etc it needed some obvious things like discs and pads but I had bit of a spongy clutch and it had a slight ticking sometimes its lifters and it was only on the drivers side. Anyway had it inspected at the indy and basically they borescoped it and it had borescore, the RMS was leaking and slowly oil had made its way onto the clutch and flywheel. Turned out the cost to sort was about 12.5k and I payed 11.25 for it.
Lesson learned! Don't buy cheap as there isnt such a thing as a cheap Porsche! You pay for it in the long term.
The main difficulty with a buying a used Porsche is everything is an extra so finding the right car is really hard. Also most come in black, grey, silver or white... I like the blues and reds but there aren't many more colourful options around then finding one with the right seats, sound system, chrono etc can be a bit tiring! Took my dad 2 years to find the 991 the 981 was a bit of an impulse purchase but is also specced to the nines.
My opinion
1. Any concern I should have when it comes to owning an old porsche that's approaching the age limit of porsche warranty (kind of a sign that porsche and its warranty underwritter think it's too risky to cover old car)?
No not really they have to call time at some point but looked after they keep going it seems.
2. I know each car is different but should I be prepared for any huge bill in terms of maintenance for a 911 at this age?
Always a possibility but unlikely just choose your repairer carefully some of the specialists think they are main dealers.
3. I learnt so far that 991.1 and the 9A1+PDK are in general quite solid. It doesn't suffer from IMS,RMS,bore scoring, etc. However, any other thing I should watch out for (e.g the COV-change over valve)?
The PDK is the risk but probability low. They can suffer from internal position sensor failure which shouldn't be a big deal except main dealer can only supply entire gearbox. There is a Porsche specialist near me that fixes them but can only get parts from USA so comes in at about half the OPC. Must stress its very unlikely. As you intend to buy from opc and sell in 2yrs you are covered under the warranty ?
5. Assuming I will own this car for 2+ years and doing about 5k miles per year, will it make big difference in terms of resale value if I start using specialist (any good recommandation as well)? What I'm currently thinking is using OPC for regular service and if any expensive fault occurs, I use specialist with original parts. Will this make sense to you, or whether your advice would be to either keep using OPC for everything, or switch to specialist completely?
Using a specialist for servicing will preclude you from selling back into the OPC and given at most your doing it once then stick with OPC for service. No one else cares much vs a specialist other than the OPC so it wont hurt your market outside the OPC. Everything else use a respected specialist (dont assume) or your local trusted spanner man if its mundane stuff
1. Any concern I should have when it comes to owning an old porsche that's approaching the age limit of porsche warranty (kind of a sign that porsche and its warranty underwritter think it's too risky to cover old car)?
No not really they have to call time at some point but looked after they keep going it seems.
2. I know each car is different but should I be prepared for any huge bill in terms of maintenance for a 911 at this age?
Always a possibility but unlikely just choose your repairer carefully some of the specialists think they are main dealers.
3. I learnt so far that 991.1 and the 9A1+PDK are in general quite solid. It doesn't suffer from IMS,RMS,bore scoring, etc. However, any other thing I should watch out for (e.g the COV-change over valve)?
The PDK is the risk but probability low. They can suffer from internal position sensor failure which shouldn't be a big deal except main dealer can only supply entire gearbox. There is a Porsche specialist near me that fixes them but can only get parts from USA so comes in at about half the OPC. Must stress its very unlikely. As you intend to buy from opc and sell in 2yrs you are covered under the warranty ?
5. Assuming I will own this car for 2+ years and doing about 5k miles per year, will it make big difference in terms of resale value if I start using specialist (any good recommandation as well)? What I'm currently thinking is using OPC for regular service and if any expensive fault occurs, I use specialist with original parts. Will this make sense to you, or whether your advice would be to either keep using OPC for everything, or switch to specialist completely?
Using a specialist for servicing will preclude you from selling back into the OPC and given at most your doing it once then stick with OPC for service. No one else cares much vs a specialist other than the OPC so it wont hurt your market outside the OPC. Everything else use a respected specialist (dont assume) or your local trusted spanner man if its mundane stuff
I have had warranty on my 911 from new, so that is 10 years now. It costs £1k a year and the issues addressed under the warranty were:
- Sport exhaust valve failed (never noticed it), but replaced.
- Two weeks ago: Damper of the rear engine cover was weak. I never noticed that as I don't open it, but replaced under warranty.
- An Adaptive engine mount failed at a cost of £3k, but covered by warranty.
Over the life time, the warranty has not covered the outlay, but it is a good feeling that nothing is not covered. The car is as new underneath as well as it is not parked outside nor used in the winter.
Re the manual - rev matching is switchable, I actually like it in the mountain driving as my feet are too big for heal and toe shifting so I still drive like a professional without being one :lol:
- Sport exhaust valve failed (never noticed it), but replaced.
- Two weeks ago: Damper of the rear engine cover was weak. I never noticed that as I don't open it, but replaced under warranty.
- An Adaptive engine mount failed at a cost of £3k, but covered by warranty.
Over the life time, the warranty has not covered the outlay, but it is a good feeling that nothing is not covered. The car is as new underneath as well as it is not parked outside nor used in the winter.
Re the manual - rev matching is switchable, I actually like it in the mountain driving as my feet are too big for heal and toe shifting so I still drive like a professional without being one :lol:
pvr said:
Yeah, I sort of have the impression reading from other forum that the PSE valve will be stuck and OPC insists it needs to be fixed. So did they replace the whole back box for you under warranty, or did they just replaced the valve? I am actually a bit worry about this as the car I'm looking at had the PSE retrofitted by another OPC in 2016 so the factory option list does not list PSE. I'm worrying whether they may reject the claim of replacing PSE back box under warranty as it's not the original spec from factory.
About the adaptive engine mount failure, can you feel it? Or was it like the PSE that you can't notice it but OPC pick that up during checks?